Cottagecore Feminist to Tradwife Pipeline

In this episode, we delve into the unexpected similarities between urban feminists and traditional housewives, exploring the personal confessions and realizations of women who feel torn between career aspirations and traditional homemaking roles. The discussion highlights the biological inclinations of women and the social constructs that lead many to reconsider their lifestyles, touching upon themes like the allure of cottagecore, the cultural impact of feminism, and the importance of having honest conversations about life goals and aspirations. Through personal anecdotes and reflective dialogue, we examine why some women might feel drawn to a 'trad wife' lifestyle despite initially rejecting it.

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Well, today we're talking about

Malcolm Collins: The difference between, because it's something I've been reflecting on a lot your classic, like, San Francisco, Manhattan feminist, And your classic trad wife is really not that far and a lot of people have been saying oh I want to you know Convert this woman to become a like a good trad wife or whatever and yet what you'll see is that many? quote unquote, like Manhattan feminists want to be trad wise,

Speaker: I feel unbelievably betrayed by feminism. I was constantly fed this idea that women can do everything. We don't really need men. I kind of want to go back to some of those, some of those teachers and coaches and say, what the hell did you mean by that? Because We can't do it all. I we can't.

Speaker 2: I sacrificed my life for my career and regret [00:01:00] every minute of it.

One woman's raw confession after finding herself childless and lost at 40.

Speaker 3: What happened? He lied about going to the airport. And? And I said I hope he dies in a car explosion. Lemon, life is about minimizing regrets. What I'm trying to say is, you're young and you still haven't blown it completely.

Speaker 6: That is less cliché. I can do

Speaker 5: it.

Speaker 6: I can handle it

Speaker 5: all.

Malcolm Collins: many? quote unquote, like Manhattan feminists want to be trad wise, even the progressive ones. And the things that they do in their spare time, the things that they associate with aesthetically,

Simone Collins: the

Malcolm Collins: things that they even think about aspirationally are really, really in line with trad wife values and that getting them onto a trad wife [00:02:00] tract is about reframing those things.

And getting them to overcome a few key barriers that are difficult for them in terms of self like internalization and internalization about the world and not about changing their actual desires. And so an example I would use of this, you know, is. For example, somebody's like, Oh, come on. Tried wives are nothing like San Francisco wives.

You know, they like making bread. And I was like, have you heard about like the sourdough fad in San Francisco? Like all of the women, Simone, for example, you were like a hardcore San SF feminist, right? Would you say you wanted to keep I ever

Simone Collins: identified as a feminist, but yeah, I mean, like I grew up. You wanted to keep your

Malcolm Collins: last name after that.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: I was hyper progressive, so whatever that means.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, but you made your own bread in your spare time? I did. You would make pastries for events? What were they, like, cupcakes and stuff like that?

Simone Collins: I did, yeah. [00:03:00]

Malcolm Collins: Okay, you would you had friends at least who crocheted and created other sorts of Oh yeah,

Simone Collins: and all my friends and I, and many of my friends also, I, I enjoyed wearing vintage 1950s dresses with petticoats as my friends.

Or

Malcolm Collins: historic cosplay, which is what, what would you call trad wife outfits or what you're wearing now?

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah. That is interesting. The, I mean, there was this period where you, and I, I dressed very professionally and that was shortly after I met you. And that was because we were both trying to build our careers.

And that was the right thing to do. But when you met me, I dressed more like a trad wife. Sometimes, sometimes I also dress like a You,

Malcolm Collins: you, you, people would have thought it was quirky. It was like bows in your hair and like, like sundresses. And like, it was San Francisco. But when I recontextualized, like, yeah, but it was also very trad wife.

Simone Collins: When I

Malcolm Collins: say [00:04:00] bows, I mean, large bows, like foot long bows in her hair.

Simone Collins: Hyper, hyper feminine. Yeah. And. Yeah, now, now I'm back to dressing like I dressed before I met you in terms of like, like cottagecore costumes every day, so that's interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Even things like chickens. Okay. So do you remember the, the thing at that party where like the women were talking about this new fad were like, you would have to kill your own chicken before eating it to learn what it was like to have to kill an animal that you had to do?

And so they would like buy and raise chickens and like, obviously some like very high status. But you could even eat the chickens. Like, oh my god, and you had to kill them and be okay with that? Yeah.

Even the hunting was a weird thing. It was like, well, you know, if I'm gonna eat meat, I need to be conscientious about killing it. So, like, I go out and I go on hunting trips every other week or something. It's like, what? And I think that there is [00:05:00] this I don't want to say like on both sides are the dehumanization of the other to the extent that they can't see how close they are, how similar

Simone Collins: they are.

You know, it reminds me even when it comes to things like sort of mental health and peace of mind that one episode in which, ron Swanson has, has been roped into a meditation class. Yes. And everyone else is like sitting there, like struggling to, you know, concentrate and he's like, I don't know what they were.

Speaker 6: all told, we were in there about six hours. And no, I was not meditating. I just stood there, quietly breathing. My mind was blank. I don't know what the hell these other crackpots are doing.

Malcolm Collins: . Yeah. It's, it's that weird

Simone Collins: Horseshoe. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I wonder, I mean, so I, I, I have a few big takeaways from this. One is, I think. And a large part of the things women want are biologically ingrained in them.

I do not think that they are [00:06:00] acculturated to go back to crocheting. You know, whether it's anime baubles or, you know, baby blankets. There is clearly something that's drawing them to this behavior, right? Yourself, you did all sorts of things I would consider arts and crafts. Yeah. It's like very little else I could call it.

Like if you did it with my kids, I'd be like, Oh, that's so sweet. Look, she's making little, like pasting various different color,

Simone Collins: like carved pumpkins or holiday wreaths or all sorts of things that like, yeah. Trad white moms would do with their kids, but I would just do it with my friends. And

Malcolm Collins: guys don't do this, this stuff alone, by the way, like guys do not like.

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