Free Will, Time, and Understanding Reality With Sabine Hossenfelder

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins sit down with renowned physicist and science communicator Sabina Hossenfelder to explore some of life's biggest questions through the lens of physics. Hossenfelder, author of "Existential Physics: A Scientist's Guide to Life's Biggest Questions," shares her insights on free will, the nature of time, and the challenges of understanding reality.

The conversation delves into the implications of determinism and randomness in quantum mechanics for the concept of free will, the consequences of Einstein's theories on our perception of time, and the role of emergent properties in grasping complex phenomena like consciousness. Hossenfelder and the Collinses also examine the importance of predictive models in defining understanding, the evolutionary biases that shape our perception of reality, and the potential risks of misaligned AI in the context of branching timelines.

The discussion also touches on the challenges of incorporating cutting-edge scientific knowledge into societal frameworks, the importance of science communication, and the need to address issues within academia while maintaining public trust in the scientific method. Throughout the conversation, Hossenfelder emphasizes the value of curiosity, tolerance, and the pursuit of understanding in navigating the complexities of reality.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Malcolm and Simone Collins, and we are joined by today, I think one of the best science communicators, if not the best science communicator on the internet, Sabina Hassenfelder. You can go find her on her YouTube channel. I suggest you check it out and subscribe, or you can check out her books, one of which, and when I read the title, everyone's going to know oh, that's why she's on the, yeah, that's why you're excited to have her on.

But she doesn't have a giant, like 1. 3 million followers. It absolutely huge platform for. hitting people with reality, which I love, but the book's title is existential physics, a scientist's guide to life's biggest questions. And what I wanted to talk with you about on this episode is where you see the limits like what does physics answer?

How have people misapplied physics potentially to try to answer life's biggest questions? I think a lot of people will. sometimes try to do. And yeah, just what are [00:01:00] your thoughts on this field as someone who is so knowledgeable in the best understanding of the fabric of reality that scientists have today?

Would you like to know more?

Sabina Hossenfelder: So maybe I should first explain what I mean with existential physics. So that though, that's a little bit weird because actually I didn't come up with the title. My, my editor did. So the original title of the book was more than this because I wanted to say that physics is more than. What you learned at school, it's not just about how atoms move and the ideal gas law and, switching the light on electricity, all that kind of stuff.

Physics is actually a tool that tells us something about our own existence because it's about discovering. the fundamental laws that the universe works with, and we're part of the universe. So it tells us some, it tells us something about us. And so existential physics, the way that I understand it now, even though I didn't coin the word is that it's about what physics tells [00:02:00] us about these big existential questions.

Like for example, does the past still exist? What really is time? What is this moment of now that we experience? How did the universe? begin? How will it end? Do we have free will? Are we really just big bags of atoms? And so all those big existential questions. And sometimes I come to the conclusion that actually physics can't really tell us anything about it.

But in other cases, I think physics does tell us something.

Malcolm Collins: I would love to dig into your thoughts on free will from the perspective of physics, because that's the topic we talk about a lot.

Sabina Hossenfelder: Yeah. So this is what got me onto the entire topic in the first place, because I made a video a long time ago about yeah.

free will. I think it was taught, you don't have free will, but don't worry. And I think it was one of my first videos that attracted some attention, mostly because it pissed off a lot of people. So it's always a good recipe. But give us the short [00:03:00] version here. Yeah. The, the short version is this is not a ground groundbreaking new insight, but I think everyone who's, fundamental laws of nature, which you find in physics comes to the conclusion that it's basically a combination of a totally deterministic evolution law, like determinism all the way down.

And then you have this occasional random element that comes from quantum mechanics, and that's it. So now I ask you exactly which part would you call free will? So to me, it's the There isn't anything that makes sense to call free will. And so this is why I'm saying I just forget about the thing with free will.

It's useless. It just it gets people upset basically. Now I understand perfectly well that there are very renowned renowned, I always mispronounce this word, which is it? Renown or renowned? Renown. Yeah. English is a terrible language. Renowned. Philosophers who have found ways to define [00:04:00] free will in such a way that it's compatible with what we've learned in physics and this is what we've learned in physicality.

And, yeah and it's, I don't have a big problem with that. I just think that it makes the entire phrase free will meaningless. But yeah, so basically that's the summary of the video.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, it sounds very similar to videos that we've done on the subject where I often point out, it's humorous to me that in the world that people who don't like my definition of free will would want, I would feel like I have less control of my thoughts.

By that what I mean is I'm like, so if the next action I take is not determined by my life history and my biology, then it's determined by randomness. That isn't empowering. That's not an empowering thought. And people will be like you believe that the, because I don't know if this is what current physics says, but my understanding is that there's some level of randomness within quantum events.

And so that doesn't mean that the future is predetermined. And I'm like, yeah, but even if that's true, that doesn't augment the fact that the [00:05:00] decisions I'm making aren't necessarily heavily affected by any choice that sentient part of me has made affecting this probabilistic thing. Therefore it is irrelevant from the topic of free will.

And I'm wondering, is that sort of your take or do you have a different?

Sabina Hossenfelder: Yeah, that's basically that's the core problem like it's like you can't have it both ways like it's either free or you wilt it, but it doesn't fit together. And I think the way that most people try to accommodate it is that they have this idea that somehow this random element from quantum processes, so it's questionable whether these even play a role in the brain but that's another story.

They were willing to buy them after all. Sorry.

Malcolm Collins: I was just promoting your video on the subject. You did one on it recently.

Sabina Hossenfelder: Yes, about the quantum effects. Yeah, that's quite a long story. It just exactly what's the role of quantum effects on the brain. say it's very controversial. [00:06:00] Basically how much does it play a role for consciousness?

These quantum coherent states. Yeah, so it's an active area of research. Maybe they don't open minded about it, but either way I'd say it doesn't really give you f