How Did We Phase Out Lobotomies? (A Roadman for Gender Transition)

In this episode, the hosts delve into the controversial topic of medical gender transitions and puberty blockers for children, comparing them to past medical fads like lobotomies. They discuss the historical context, patient outcomes, and the cultural and ethical implications of these practices. The conversation highlights the issues surrounding informed consent, the pressure on doctors and patients, and the potential long-term effects. The hosts draw parallels with other societal phenomena and express concerns about the role of therapists and the medical industry. The episode concludes with predictions on how societal trends may evolve and the potential for future scandals in the psychiatric field.

Speaker: [00:00:00] The lobotomite returns! What insidious plan can it have brewing in its horrid mind? What commie, anti American propaganda will it spew?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. Today, we're going to be discussing an interesting topic that's been nagging at the back of my brain for a while now. Say that. I think we are at a point in history now where basically everyone who is like super cute into the data, everyone who's super cute into the most modern studies, the most modern statistics where culture is flowing knows that the.

medical gender transition phenomenon and the child puberty blocking phenomenon are both going to be seen as well mistakes in the way a lot of fads historically in medicine were seen as mistakes.

Is the holy guide to living pure, this will help [00:01:00] explain. First, Laughter. Oh. You're not

An oppressed minority. you're a cult!

Malcolm Collins: There was a phenomenon of hypnosis and bringing back old memories. Oh, this is great. This is so cool for a while.

Then everyone was like, Oh, we got a bunch of people to accuse their parents of grapes that definitely didn't happen. And now those parents have spent their lives in jail and people have been permanently broken from their families. And this was a horrible thing. How, why did nobody call attention to this earlier?

This is, this is recent. This is like the eighties, you know, we, we,

Simone Collins: you

Malcolm Collins: know, we, this sort of stuff happens all the time, but I think the most famous instance of it happening is lobotomies. Right. Lobotomies were very popular. Even the Kennedys did it.

If that iteration of the Kennedy family were around today, would they not be the first in line to transition their daughter?

And [00:02:00] then we came to realize, Oh, this is actually horrifying and does not help the people who we're doing it to.

And just so people understand 20, 000 people went through lobotomies at some point.

Simone Collins: It wasn't one big proponent of it who would even

Malcolm Collins: lobotomize

Simone Collins: people

Malcolm Collins: on stage. Well, yeah, the guy who invented it, the neurologist, Ergos Monod, got the Nobel Prize for inventing it. No way! He got the Nobel Prize? People don't understand when they're like, no, lobotomies were never as celebrated as gender transitions today.

Oh, no, they definitely, definitely were as celebrated as gender transitions. This

Simone Collins: undermines my trust in the Nobel Prize right

Malcolm Collins: now. Well, here's the other interesting thing. A lot of people will be like, well, Yeah, but they're hugely different. Lobotomies weren't done with consent. Actually, lobotomies were almost never done without consent.

Lobotomies were done with informed consent. Really? The problem is, is they were just very [00:03:00] bad at informing the people. The

Simone Collins: information was bad, or the delivery of the informed consent was bad?

Malcolm Collins: The delivery of the, so For example, people would be like, Oh, well, we know now from the leaks around the the WPATH files, for example, that it's very common in the doctors who are doing these procedures know that most people who are getting them do not understand the consequences of them.

Oh, yeah. Like they're not aware

Simone Collins: of like higher risk of osteoporosis. You may never have an orgasm like all these things. They haven't been warned about. Like they don't understand that

Malcolm Collins: they're going to be sterilized. Right? A lot of people think it's just totally reversible.

So some lines we have here and endocrinologists stated. I know I'm talking to a blink wall in private emails. And another one pointed out that they knew that they were quote, robbing these kids at this sort of early to mid puberty sexual stuff.

That's happening with her sister and your peers. In quote, and then in another instance where they thought that they could just transition back and forth whenever they felt [00:04:00] like it. , they said, quote, They seem to feel that there should be allowed to switch it back and forth merely at their request in quote. , showing that it was very clear, they didn't understand this was a permanent thing.

But more broadly. And this is very clear from a lot of people who, you know, hit like the age of 23 and are like, I want to turn back. It's simply neither communicated to them. . They can't just turn back whenever they want.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can just you're just delaying.

You're just delaying nothing. Nothing bad is. Yeah, you're right. Okay. So the problem is there has been information given, but the information is highly incomplete.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and what's also been shown is because there's been such a bubble around persecuting clinics that do gender transition. If you watch interviews with detransitioners about their, like their indoctrination, I guess you could say interviews for the transition is the doctors will like, tell them very little of what's actually happening and just talk about how amazing it's going to be and everything like that.

When it's an advanced thing, it's [00:05:00] It's a very invasive medical procedure that often ends with you know, the, the, the new organs undergrowing necrosis and other forms of like, yeah, they genuinely begin to like rot on their body, but of course they would like, this isn't like an easy thing to do.

Simone Collins: Yeah, hearing, hearing about the complications from surgery and just the recovery, like drainage ports and all sorts of like, this is stuff that.

If you heard it out of context, you would think that they, you know, had just undergone like major tumor removal or like some kind of like cancer. Yeah. And I

Malcolm Collins: think a lot of people who casually support gender transition today and are like, Oh, you'd be more trans people if it was more, you know, accepted by mainstream.

I think that they feel this way because they haven't actually investigated like the actual what happens after gender transition what the surgeries are actually doing or what people are being told before [00:06:00] they go into these surgeries. And that if they did what they would realize, is it a lot of this is about doctors that are trying to make a quick buck.

It's about psychologists who are scared to say anything against the community because they're very aggressive about this. The Horror, and I think the thing that turned me the most against this, I mentioned this in another episode, but it's really important to note, this has never existed before in human history.

I believed going into this, because they were like, oh, Two Spirit, and there's this thing in Indonesia, and there's this thi