Inside the Deranged Anti-Natalist Movement

We explain the rising tensions between pronatalists and antinatalists as an ideological war emerges. While some antinatalists logically argue for non-consensual human extinction, we remain committed to pluralism. However, their totalitarian views are concerning as they gain institutional power. Though depressed and self-loathing now, their numbers grow quickly. We must peacefully opt out to avoid potential violence.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] We need to really keep in mind that there is a growing movement out there that wants to end all human life.

Khrushchev said he would bury you

Malcolm Collins: anyway, children too will be fine.

It would be such an ignorant thing to do If the Russians

Malcolm Collins: The problem is that these people don't have children and know they don't love them

. Believe me when I say to

Malcolm Collins: and they really do want to kill you all and they could end up in nuclear silos.

They could end up in positions of power and we need to keep in mind just how dangerous the forces arrayed against us really are you know, while we try to be as pluralistic as possible, we need to understand that they want to remove consent from everyone, everyone.

if you could end suffering tomorrow, yeah, probably anything is justifiable. Inflicting just about anything is probably justifiable, imposing just about anything is probably [00:01:00] justifiable

Malcolm Collins: They are the, I think, the truest and purest form of evil in the world today. And it feels really good that there are enemies because I know I'm on the right side. It's like you get to a holocaust camp and you're like, Oh, these guys are clearly the f*****g bad guys. You get to an epilous subreddit, you're like, Oh, wow!

You could not more clearly signal that you're evil. But they are growing and they're growing faster than us.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yep, gird your loins, ladies and gentlemen,

Would you like to know more?

Simone Collins: So Malcolm, I'm not really sure when this is going to go live, but we are very rapidly approaching the end of the year 2023. This has been a wild year for us through the generosity of the survival and flourishing fund a significant amount for pronatalist advocacy work. Which got us really tapped into the community to the global landscape.

We've spoken with journalists across the world, Germany, France,

Malcolm Collins: politicians, politicians, leaders.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just individuals. It's been wild. And I, I came in with [00:02:00] a very different perception of the forces arrayed against pronatalism that I have now at the end of the year, I came in thinking the forces arrayed against pronatalism are.

Just it being hard to have kids, it being expensive to have kids, it being daunting to have kids, the regulatory load being too high, and those things matter. But what I'm realizing is really at play and this is something that came up at the natalism conference in Austin that we attended in December and spoke at was it really what this is, is there is a growing, there's a war on the horizon and it is between people who are pro humanity, pro humanity.

Existence, sentience, life. I'm not saying pro life like anti abortion. I'm saying pro life like I like the fact that things exist and feel and, and anti life and this is something that we first got the rumblings of in like various off the record salons and dinner parties we [00:03:00] were hosting where we would bring up demographic collapse and pronatalism among major leaders, investors, politicians, influencers, et cetera.

In a common The most common pushback we got, it was never any of the things I thought were the big bags, bads. It was never expensive, blah, blah, blah, regulatory, blah, blah. No, it was, but wouldn't the, wouldn't the world be better off without humans? And we're like, wait,

Malcolm Collins: what? But this is an undercurrent.

And it's a much bigger and more philosophically robust undercurrent than I think many pronatalists give it credit for. Yeah. Yeah,

Simone Collins: exactly. There's, it is logically consistent and in, in the frame of modern progressive urban monoculture. society. It is the logical conclusion because it is a negative utilitarian mindset.

Yeah, if

Malcolm Collins: you're interested in going into our deep dive on negative utilitarianism, why we are not negative utilitarians [00:04:00] go find our video on negative utilitarianism. Just so people know, whenever I mention a video in one of these videos, typically up here. I'm, I'm going to post something which will appear like a little link that you can click if you're on YouTube, which will take you to that video.

And I often also at the end of a video, including the recommended videos, the videos that we have been talking about in that particular video to make it easier for you to find them. And this one, I'm almost certainly going to include if I remember the, the video on negative utilitarianism. So, you know, these, these are individuals who essentially believe that while negative emotions are a thing of negative value, positive emotions are not a thing of positive value.

It's not as insane as it sounds if you go into it in detail. But this philosophy is the core philosophy of the antinatalist movement. It is not the environmentalist philosophy. All of that is sort of ancillary. Like, yes, environmentalism is nice. Like, yes, some of the other things. But if you look at F, Like, ephalus, right?

Which is one of the core players in this community, which we'll go into in a second, or if you look [00:05:00] at like negative utilitarian, say we have debated, they actually don't want humans to stop existing right now because we don't yet have the capacity to kill all animal lives before we kill ourselves. And so they want to ensure that we can do that.

So there's not a risk of some other animal coming to evolve into humanity or the. Horrible things that are happening in nature all the time. And they're right. I mean, nature is a horrifying space. These are not logically inconsistent communities. Although we, we

Simone Collins: do have to divide it up and this is something so, Malcolm's referring to Lawrence, Anton and company.

A group of antinatalists based in the UK who are among the leading antinatalists. And they're, they're both very logically consistent and reasonable. They're the ones who hold the view that they want all sentience to end because all sentience is suffering. And it is very logically consistent on their end to be like, man, have you like seen how animals die?

Like it's way worse than, you know, like there's a lot more suffering units going on there than like the human suffering units. If we're looking at this, practically speaking, especially in developed societies, community and shrimp. Yes. But then there, there is, there are also the [00:06:00] environmental antinatalists who just think humans are

Malcolm Collins: bad.

The human extinction movement. So, I mean, let's talk about some of these, let's pull up the human extinction movement website. Okay.

So let's see what they say. So they're called the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, if you want to look at this. And they say on their website, phasing out the human species by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.

I love how like underplayed that is from voluntary human extinction. See what's been happening lately in the movement. They're talking abou