Mob, Mafia, MS-13: Why Catholics Created Most US Criminal Orgs

In this thought-provoking episode, Simone and Malcolm delve into a complex historical and cultural analysis of why major Catholic immigrant groups in the United States have been associated with organized crime. They explore various factors, including the influence of Catholic Church teachings, the role of family structures, and cultural adaptations that have shaped these criminal organizations. The discussion also touches on historical and contemporary examples, the nature of moral accountability, and comparisons with other religious and ethnic groups. Join us as we attempt to untangle these intriguing connections and understand the broader social implications.

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be with you today. Today we are going to be asking the question of what makes Catholics such a criminal population? Why is the Catholic soul drawn to criminality? And if you. Are confused by what I mean by this.

What I am saying is if you look at major immigrant groups throughout American History that started large scale criminal networks you are looking at the Irish mob. I. A Catholic group, the Italian mafia, a Catholic group, and modern groups like MS 13 a Latin American, Catholic Group,

Simone Collins: ms. Oh my, I didn't even think about that.

Oh, wow.

Malcolm Collins: In fact the only other immigrant population that I can think of that was able to set up a, a large and persistent criminal network that was not Catholic was. Perhaps the Russian mob, but the Russian mob was never as big as the mob or the mafia or even MS 13. So as, as an immigrant

Simone Collins: class, right?

Malcolm Collins: As an immigrant class, we're not including, right, because I'm

Simone Collins: thinking about like the, the Akua are falling apart. The Yakuza

Malcolm Collins: never established a large foothold in the United States. No, they

Simone Collins: did

Malcolm Collins: not.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Even when I went to AI to ask it about this, because I was like, maybe AI will know something about this.

Like it must have some great counter examples to these Catholic groups and keep up. Catholics are a minority of the American population. Even still, they're only like 22%. Right? And historically they were not big. We've pointed this out before, but even during the revolution in the United States, they were around 1.5% of the population.

And even in the state that is sort of as the Catholic State, Maryland, they were only around 13% of the population. So what's is it

Simone Collins: that the, that the Catholic Church itself teaches them bureaucratic organization, like how to build a hierarch functional? We'll, we'll get

Malcolm Collins: in, we will get into that. So the only a large or even remotely large non-Catholic immigrant.

Organized crime organization able to find were the Chinese tongs. So they emerged in the late 19th century in Chinatowns, particularly in New York and San Francisco as mutual aid societies for Chinese immigrants, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But obviously like you haven't heard of the tongs, so they're, they're not quite as big.

Right? Yeah, I've

Simone Collins: heard of the

Malcolm Collins: triad.

Simone Collins: Remember,

Malcolm Collins: but the triad never really set up here. Then you have my favorite one was I didn't know that there was a Jewish mob called Murder Inc. There was specifically, well, a little on the

Simone Collins: nose.

Malcolm Collins: I, it's a little on the nose, right. So, they specialize in carrying out contract killings and carried out between 400.

Well, what do you know, thousand orders in the 1930s. I guess that makes sense. You

Simone Collins: know, when people are like, you know, A plus plumbing co. I mean, yeah, be straightforward about what you're selling.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I was like, I was like, this is, this is a, a, a great counter example. And then I read more about Murder Inc.

And, and No Murder Inc worked for the Italian Mafia. They were, they were set up it seems, even by the mafia itself. Before, why would the outsource to

Simone Collins: Jews for contract killing just 'cause they didn't, they didn't want it in the family Like that made it too awkward.

Malcolm Collins: I think maybe Jews were just better at it.

I can see Jews being uniquely good at contract killing. Nothing about, I mean, just look at, look at how good a job they did was the, was the pager exploder thing in? Oh

Simone Collins: gosh. Right? Yeah. They get the job done. That's true. Need be

Malcolm Collins: secretive about something like this. I can see, you know, a, a, a cultural specialization.

Again, this is not saying, I know.

Simone Collins: I feel like, so these days if someone were like, Simone, and you just hire someone to kill someone. I mean, I've heard that like people who take hits in Mexico are taking them for like 50 bucks. I feel like that's the opportunity. It's just yolo down arbitrage. You wanna import country?

Well, I mean more frugal people. Malcolm. I mean, you don't wanna frugal.

Malcolm Collins: I love, I don't think I can. I can, I can't afford a Jew to kill someone. Oh wait, it's your, wait. It's your whole point here that you're afraid that a Jew is gonna overcharge you. Is is, that sounds costly.

Simone Collins: Inc. They're like incorporated.

They have to, you know, they're paying taxes, they're gonna, you know, charge me extra for that. You know, their accounting system, you know, their, their annual filings over. Yeah. I could just find, you know, a very desperate Mexican who already does $50 contract killings and like.

Malcolm Collins: Go

Simone Collins: for it.

Malcolm Collins: I absolutely love you.

So you are so, by the way, this is not like we don't have anything against Jewish people. Like this is just, or Mexicans. I just, I

Simone Collins: I, I watched this really depressing YouTube video on contract killings in Mexico and was like shocked at the price of human life.

Malcolm Collins: They gotta get their

Simone Collins: act together. I don't know, man.

You're saying

Malcolm Collins: we should move to Mexico or we will be able behind. I'm not saying we should

Simone Collins: move to Mexico. I'm just saying if someone put a gun to my head and said I needed to hire a contract killer and get some something done quickly. I'd probably go to a Mexican.

Malcolm Collins: So the, the, the, the question comes from all this, and I really tried to play with AI to see if AI could think of anything.

Okay. Why is it, and, and I I have a number of hypothesis around why this may be. Why is it that predominantly not just the predominant criminal organizations in the United States were Catholics, but every large scale Catholic, immigrant wave into the United States created a large scale criminal organization that those three waves were the only large scale Catholic immigrant waves into the United States.

Yeah, the Irish and the Italians. Then the Hispanics those are the only ones you know. So every time they came, they also set this up. This isn't to say that ther