Oh no! Anything but Chastity! (4B Movement Hits the States)

In this episode, join Malcolm and Simone as they embark on an extensive analysis of the 4B Movement, a feminist reaction gaining traction both in South Korea and the United States. The discussion covers the movement’s origins, its development, and its philosophical premises. Delve into the cultural differences between South Korean and American interpretations of 4B, the controversial stance of the movement on issues like marriage, traditional gender roles, and its anti-pornography and anti-trans perspectives. Listener discretion is advised as some shocking instances from the WOMAD forum are discussed. Learn how this movement intersects with both feminist and conservative ideologies, and its broader societal implications.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to do a deep dive both on the formation of the four B movement. It's moved to the United States. Yeah. But also being base camp, I wanted to take a unique perspective on this movement. And I think it reveals something that a lot of people are not picking up.

Speaker: You have to have four B's blood and bullets. That's what it takes

Malcolm Collins: So for those who are not clear what the four B movement is, is a movement away from having sex with men, marrying men or having kids.

Speaker 2: And don't even get me started about this whole rights thing. What have we come to if you can't demand sexual favors from the people in your employ?

Malcolm Collins: We'll go into specifics in a bit, but that's the gist of it. Women who feel from a feminist and far left perspective done with men. are moving towards a lifestyle of increased chastity.

Now, as you can imagine, and as [00:01:00] we will go over in this, many conservatives are like, yeah, this is what we always wanted you to do. But I think that they are missing something fundamental that's happening here, which is the for B movement, as well as other movements within the progressive cause. Now are almost a laundered conservative movement that is intentionally and not accidentally traditionalist.

So it really hit home this weekend when we were meeting with a bunch of people from the Heritage Foundation and a bunch of Washington conservatives. And a lot of them liked pushing ideas like banning pornography, which is very popular among groups like the 4B movement. The 4B movement is Actually in korea known as a very turfy movement.

It's a very anti trans movement, which we'll get to which I think would surprise a lot of people they're like wait, it's an anti trans movement. So yeah, it's an anti trans movement. So they're they're anti trans. They're they're pro chastity, they [00:02:00] believe that a man is born a man and a woman is born a woman and there's only two genders they are against pornography.

And they have a very traditional role of a woman's value to society. So fundamentally, what is the 4B movement? But a movement that says my core value, like if I wanted to put pressure on society, the core way I would do that is by limiting sexual access to myself. And it also frames sexuality as something that men want from women.

Women and that it is women to distribute. It's not like women want sex and men want sex. It is a very, very traditional view of sexuality, which is sexuality and sex is something women fundamentally don't want or don't want that much. And they can manipulate. their husbands or society by trickling it out.

And I think that what we're seeing here is as the democratic party, and you can see this in the statistics is especially in places like Korea, right? [00:03:00] Where, well, it's not the democratic party. I think it's separate in Korea, but you see women going far one way in voting patterns and men going far another way in voting patterns.

As the parties increasingly become a male party, and a female party, it only makes sense that a traditionalist, conservative, female agenda faction would form within the progressive party. And I think that's what we're beginning to see the rumblings of with the 4B movement. Hmm.

Simone Collins: I may not agree, but I will share my opinions as you share yours.

Malcolm Collins: No, I want to hear your counters this.

Simone Collins: I've watched a bunch of 4B content, especially American commentary after Trump was elected when there was a surge in 4B interest in the United States. And when it comes down to it, in the end, I think this is ultimately, Just another iteration of women tearing other women down to create a more competitive [00:04:00] market for themselves to say, yeah, you know, shave your hair.

Don't wear makeup.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, do you actually believe, like, I could see this hypothetically being a thing, but when I try to model the women who are doing things like shaving their heads or not, not, or the women who are cheering them on, I don't think that they actively see these women as sexual competition.

I know it's not

Simone Collins: conscious. But it's something that happens anyway, if you have a bunch of women sitting around and they're all like, oh, my thighs are so fat. I'm so ugly. Everyone just kind of talks themselves down and then everyone's like, no, you're beautiful. Like you are, you should not wear any makeup.

And you're being nice, but also it wouldn't be terrible if they didn't take that seriously. That much care.

Malcolm Collins: Have you ever caught yourself intentionally engaging in that behavior?

Simone Collins: I just am on autopilot. I'm on auto respond. I'm always just going to say whatever creates the most social harmony. And niceness, but I just get that impression low key.

And [00:05:00] there's a lot going on with the commentary in this movement, but in the end, when you look at research on female interaction and what not words say, but what actions demonstrate women subtly pull each other down. All the time. Like that study with haircuts and more attractive women getting more hair cut off.

This just feels like a market correction among women. Explain the study you just

Malcolm Collins: referenced.

Simone Collins: Researchers had evaluated, and I might butcher this, but the gist of the study was that women who are more attractive in this study were given shorter haircuts than they requested by their hairstylists.

And the supposition is that they were overcorrecting for these women being too pretty and trying to essentially tear them down. And there's also some research suggesting a little bit of discrimination against women in hiring. Krim, you actually did [00:06:00] an interesting analysis of this, a short one on his sub stack, suggesting that a lot of the research on attractiveness and how people are affected is actually correct.

Cluji, because the way that people are rating attractiveness is really subjective and not perfect in many ways in many studies. Some studies are better than others. But anyway, there is, I think, a lot of intrasexual competition among women that is very subconscious and that the 4Bs movement is definitely in part motivated by feminist interests, but for a variety of reasons.

I'm getting a lot more pick me signaling than I am getting,

Malcolm Collins: But who are they signaling the pick me ness to? I mean, look, they're signaling it, and I think this is interesting They're signaling that

Simone Collins: they're extra hard to get, that they're extra desirable, so that when they do hone in on a target That target understands just how high value this woman [00:07:00] is.

She's sworn off all men,