The NYC Subway: How Society's Spirit was Broken

In this revealing discussion, the hosts delve into two alarming incidents highlighting societal decay and complacency. They contrast the case of Daniel Penny, who faced severe consequences for attempting to restrain a dangerous person on a New York subway, with a recent horrific event where bystanders filmed a woman being set on fire instead of helping her. The dialogue explores themes of learned helplessness, failing societal norms, and the wider implications of these events. With both reference to urban culture and poignant psychological studies, this episode provides a critical analysis of current moral and structural failings within society.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today. We are going to be contrasting two recent events, which I think do a good job of illustrating the degradation of our society and where we are at as a society right now. Specifically, the instance of Daniel Penny, when he attempted to restrain somebody he saw as a danger on a subway train, ended up accidentally killing them, and then had his life at risk as a result of this, but was recently freed, thankfully.

And then the other instance in which a person lit a woman on fire on a train, multiple people took video of this.

Simone Collins: Video?

Malcolm Collins: Wait,

Simone Collins: people recorded this happening?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they just extinguished her. Women's burning to death, stopped, didn't try to save her, flipped out their phones. A police officer, a police officer walked by, did nothing.

No one is facing any consequences for this.

Speaker: And how do you find [00:01:00] with respect to the charge of criminal indifference?

Speaker 2: We find the defendants Guilty. Order! Order

Speaker: Your callous indifference and utter disregard for everything that is good and decent has rocked the very foundation upon which our society is built.

Malcolm Collins: So this

Simone Collins: isn't just that they didn't apprehend the The immolator. They also didn't stop the immolation. What on

Malcolm Collins: earth? You, you, in our society right now, if you interfere, if you try to help, if you try to do anything you will be punished for

Simone Collins: it.

Malcolm Collins: It's what is being taught to people.

That is what it, in the, in the center of urban monoculture that is Manhattan. That is what the urban monoculture says. Don't try.

You compared it to the marshmallow study and a lot of people like that comparison. I'll compare it [00:02:00] to learned helplessness

Simone Collins: Okay, right.

Malcolm Collins: So for people who aren't familiar with learned helplessness, there was this experiment the psychological experiment done was mice and rats where if you Put a mouse or rat in like a bowl of let's say water You Right.

And there's nothing in there. And, and they, they learn that they're not going to find any sort of an edge to this bowl of water. Right. And then you put another set of them in a bowl of water that has like a little platform underneath it and part of it. So eventually they can find something to stand on to save themselves.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The ones that were in the water that didn't have this platform, They'll give up really quickly when you put them in water and just drown.

Simone Collins: Whereas

Malcolm Collins: the ones with the platform will keep trying for a very long period of time. And this is learned helplessness.

Simone Collins: So they'll like jump from the platform to the edge of the bowl again to try to get out?

Or they'll just

Malcolm Collins: know what I'm saying is that if the previous times they were put in the bowl and there was a platform somewhere in the [00:03:00] bowl,

Simone Collins: okay,

Malcolm Collins: even when the platform isn't there, they keep trying to convince us to stop trying. Yeah, we have to have a reason to

Simone Collins: believe that there's a way out.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, I want to go over these instances and talk more about how deeply disturbing that this is where we are as a society,

That you Potentially are punished by having your life taken away from you by trying to save other people But you can sit there and film somebody burning to death.

I would no risk to you just doing nothing and The internet doesn't even care to vilify

Simone Collins: you

Malcolm Collins: Doesn't even care to dox you nobody cares because that's expected behavior Thanks So Debrina A 61 year old woman from Toms River, New Jersey, was the victim of this horrific attack. She was believed to be homeless and was sleeping on a stationary F train at the Coney Island Stilwell Avenue station in [00:04:00] Brooklyn when the incident occurred.

The attack in December 22nd 2024, around 730 Sebastian Zabeto Kali, a 33 year old man, allegedly approached the sleeping Kawam and set her on fire using a lighter. The attack was seemingly unprovoked and the suspect and victim were believed to be strangers and are believed to be strangers. He basically did it for fun because he was drunk.

It later came out. Now, I will also note here that this individual who did this had been kicked out of the United States as an illegal immigrant under Trump. And had come back into the United States under Biden's policy. Oh,

Simone Collins: no. Oh. Ah. Oh. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: boy. Horrifying. This is, this is, this is what happens when you allow for loose borders.

So. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Loose borders. Not, not a great idea.

Malcolm Collins: Bystanders and police response the incident has sparked outrage due to the apparent lack of immediate intervention from bystanders and police Officer present at the scene bystanders video footage shows at least three bystanders Looking on as [00:05:00] the victim was engulfed in flames.

Some individuals were seen filming the incident rather than offering help A police officer NYPD officer was seen on video walking past the burning woman, raising his hands as if unsure how to respond. This has led to criticism and questions of proper emergency response protocols, but also basic humanity.

The suspect. And by the way, people who don't know, people have been like, Oh, it looks like she was on drugs or something, from what we have seen, this is not the case. She was just asleep, and what is gonna happen if you wake up engulfed in flames? Like, you're, you're, you're going to be confused. So, obviously she's confused.

If you woke up in the middle of the night engulfed in flames, you would be confused as well. So it appears that he just Let someone on fire who was asleep. Okay, so the suspect he is an undocumented immigrant from Guatemala who had previously been deported in 2018 but re entered the United States illegally.

He was arrested hours after the attack when a group of high school students recognized him on [00:06:00] another train and alerted authorities. He reportedly claimed to have been drunk and unable to remember setting the woman on fire despite identifying himself in the photos and the surveillance video of the incident.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: So this is somebody who was known as dan