Show full transcript 0:28 equivalent to $15 per month required, intro rate first three months only, then full price 0:31 plan options available, taxes and fees extra, see full terms at MintMobile.com. 0:34 The Crispy Chicken Crunchwrap Slider that you love is back at Taco Bell. 0:38 And it's back with attitude, because now you can enjoy the all-white meat chicken nuggets 0:42 inside a slider-sized crunchwrap with Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. 0:46 What do you love most? The Crispy Chicken Nuggets, the Crunchwrap Slider, 0:49 or maybe the Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch? Yes, the answer is yes. 0:54 The Crispy Chicken Crunchwrap Slider, a brand new classic, is back, only at Taco Bell. 1:00 Can the V6 Nissan Frontier tow a 6,000 pound boulder? 1:04 Sure it can. 1:05 Can it pull a stuck ATV out of a ditch? 1:08 One? Make it three. 1:10 Can it find the path when the map ends? 1:13 What map? 1:15 Can it out-truck the Tacoma and go off the off-road? 1:19 Oh my gosh, can. 1:20 Can the V6 Nissan Frontier? 1:23 For sure. 1:23 No problem. 1:30 I've always believed the way you start your morning sets the tone for everything it follows. 1:36 That first cup of coffee isn't just a routine, it's a ritual. 1:39 That quiet moment before the day really begins. 1:42 That's why I appreciate DeLonghi. 1:45 For over 50 years they've combined Italian craftsmanship, thoughtful design, and innovation 1:49 for homes around the world. 1:51 As the number one espresso machine brand in the world they bring that same 1:54 expertise to an espresso experience that feels effortless and makes mornings a 1:59 little more delicious. The machine looks beautiful in my kitchen but it's also 2:02 incredibly simple to use. A quick espresso before heading out the door or a 2:06 cappuccino on a slower morning it turns an everyday moment into something 2:10 worth savoring. There I say a damn fine cup of coffee. Right now with 2:15 Prime Day and DeLonghi summer sale save up to 40% off select machines. 2:19 After all, if it's not Italian, is it even espresso? 2:22 To learn more, visit Dallangi.com or search Dallangi Espresso Machines on Amazon. 2:28 Happy brewing. 2:33 I want to take you back to something you heard at the beginning of this season. 2:38 It's a news story about Cindy and Kenny. 2:41 But we begin here at 9.30 with the jury awarding more than $21 million to a couple 2:46 in Steamboat Springs after it found the woman's ex-husband pushed false allegations 2:51 of child sex abuse. 2:53 Back in 2024, 2:55 a Denver TV news station 2:57 interviewed Cindy and Kenny. 2:59 I've been saying it for years. 3:00 It's never happened, and I just couldn't get anybody to listen. 3:03 I felt listened to. 3:06 I felt like, uh, vindicated. 3:10 For them, it's been 3:12 about clearing their names 3:13 and something else. 3:16 And I hope to one day 3:18 see my children and tell them what happened, 3:19 and I hope they don't feel in any way that they're responsible for this. 3:25 They want the children to know the truth. 3:28 This story is about giving these children a chance in life to know the truth so they 3:33 can make their own decisions in the future when they're ready. 3:37 I'm going to put my family back together. 3:38 It's hard, but I'm going to do it. 3:41 Even with the truth on her side, Cindy faced her hardest battle yet, piecing together 3:48 her broken family. 3:58 I'm Nancy Glass and this is Season 3 of Burden of Guilt, Episode 10 Best Interests. 4:10 Back in 2024, journalist Rob Lowe worked for KDVR TV in Denver. 4:16 He hosted a weekly segment on the nightly news called Problem Solvers. 4:20 Basically, I was an investigative reporter who really had free reign to kind of do longer 4:25 format in-depth pieces that I thought were of interest. 4:29 One of his segments featured Cindy and Kenny. 4:32 I picked up on the story after a Steamboat Springs jury awarded them $21 million, basically for defamation. 4:39 That to me was the type of verdict where juries clearly trying to send a message of how egregious they thought the biological father had acted 4:47 and how so many in the system had got things wrong. 4:51 I just can't imagine anything worse than a father trying to convince his kids they'd been sexually abused if they haven't. 4:56 Like, who does that? 4:59 That is so messed up. 5:01 Even with Steve on the hook for more than $20 million, 5:05 Rob reported that Cindy paid out more than $8 million in legal fees. 5:11 You know, not many people have $8 million to pursue the truth, 5:15 but that is obviously how strongly and passionately she felt about this. 5:19 After 30 years in TV news, Rob said, 5:23 said, this is one of the stories that will always stick with him. 5:27 We know that divorce cases can get very bitter, especially when they involve children in custody, 5:33 but this one was so extreme. 5:36 Cindy, you know, she had a really telling quote in the story where she said something 5:40 effective had to choose between the truth and my family. 5:44 I was asked to choose between my children and the truth, and for four years I had to 5:54 choose the truth. 5:57 You're always trying to separate yourself as a reporter, but that was the first time 6:00 in 30 years where I literally got Terry listening to Cindy, because as a parent myself, 6:06 I just couldn't imagine something as awful and as horrific. 6:09 And now, the final chapter, Cindy's Three Children. 6:15 In many ways, her children are the primary victims in this case. 6:20 Unfortunately, it's just not a strong enough word for what happened to them. 6:24 At the time of this recording, Cindy's daughter is an adult. 6:28 She's in college and living abroad. 6:31 Earlier this year, we contacted her, but she did not want to do a formal interview. 6:36 And, since her brothers are still minors, we didn't reach out to them. 6:41 We don't know what the children believed to be true or what they've been told about 6:45 their mother. 6:46 We don't even know if they're aware of the verdict from the civil trial. 6:50 What we do know is they still reside with their father, Steve, and up until recently 6:55 they had no contact with their mother. 6:58 She still doesn't have custody of her kids. 7:01 She's still just trying to have a normal relationship with them and hopefully get 7:04 them to understand that this was all bogus. 7:07 And even though a jury found that Steve, the children's father, had orchestrated a scorched 7:13 earth campaign to win full custody from Cindy, Cindy's twin boys are still living with Steve. 7:20 I know how deeply that troubles Cindy in particular because this is her kids that 7:26 she desperately wants to be with and have a relationship with, and yet she's really 7:29 been prevented from having a meaningful relationship because the family court system has moved 7:34 so slow and certainly not in a direction favorable to her. 7:38 It seems like it's always been favorable to her ex-husband. 7:42 This really seemed to be a case of parental alienation 7:44 on stair rides. 7:48 Parental alienation. 7:49 According to journalist Barbara Bradley-Haggerty, 7:52 it's a controversial term heard in a lot of family law cases. 7:57 Parental alienation is basically a process 8:00 through which one parent turns a child 8:03 against the other parent. 8:05 It's essentially a child being used as a weapon to hurt the ex. 8:11 Back in 2020, Barbara wrote about parental alienation for the Atlantic. 8:16 It was something I had never heard of before, but one day one of my very close friends confided in me that his marriage was falling apart and more troublesome was that his child was withdrawing from him. 8:29 And he was worried because he and this five-year-old child 8:34 were just special buddies. 8:36 Later, I heard the wife bad-mouthing my friend, 8:41 saying to the child, daddy's late again. 8:45 Do you know what that means? 8:47 That means that daddy doesn't love us. 8:50 I mean, I was shocked. 8:53 Her colleague's child ultimately refused to see him. 8:56 and it has been 15 years since he's talked with his kid. 9:02 And I just can't tell you how brokenhearted he is. 9:05 He said, you know, this thing that I'm going through, 9:08 it's got a name. 9:10 It's called parental alienation. 9:13 In her article titled, When a Child is a Weapon, 9:17 Barbara wrote that when one parent 9:19 turns a child against the other, 9:21 the family courts are often at a loss as to what to do. 9:25 Even when the court ends up ruling that a child has been coerced into shunning one parent, 9:32 if the kid still doesn't want to see that other parent, the judge is like, hey, what 9:36 am I going to do? 9:37 You know, put a 16-year-old in handcuffs? 9:41 What the courts have done is remove the child from one parent and place the child with 9:47 the other parent, the alienated one. 9:50 Sometimes the courts take it a step further and send the child and alienated parent to what are called reunification camps. 9:59 These camps are usually at hotels far away from the child's home. 10:05 They meet with the therapist for four days. They watch videos about psychological manipulation. 10:11 They try to discuss problems as a family. 10:14 And what supporters say is that it's giving the kids a chance to reconnect with the unfavored parent to step back and kind of reconsider their assumptions about that parent without the dominant parent breathing down their neck. 10:30 These camps last about four days 10:32 and cost tens of thousands of dollars 10:35 with an average price around $20,000. 10:38 And a judge often prohibits the favored parent 10:42 from communicating with the child for 90 days. 10:46 That's crucial because it allows this break 10:49 in the relationship. 10:50 And if there is brainwashing, 10:52 it allows a break in the brainwashing. 10:54 Critics, on the other hand, 10:56 call it torture camp for kids. 11:00 The backlash against reunification camps 11:03 began after videos surfaced of children screaming 11:06 and crying as they're forcibly removed from their homes, 11:10 thrown into vans and driven to these camps. 11:13 It's led to some states outlawing them. 11:16 I'm not the least bit surprised that a lot of states 11:19 have gotten rid of reunification camps. 11:21 I mean, most psychologists think it's bunk 11:24 and they think that the treatment is dangerous. 11:28 In her research, Barbara said, 11:30 she found the results of these camps to be mixed. 11:34 What I've noticed is that when the programs, quote, work, 11:39 the children essentially switch allegiances. 11:43 They cut off their formerly favored parent 11:46 and embrace the formerly unfavored parent. 11:49 It's basically all or nothing. 11:51 So whether a child ever reconciles with the mom or dad is really, at this point, a matter of luck. 11:59 So the question is, how do the courts and therapists handle kids who've been brainwashed by one parent 12:05 into believing the other parent is a terrible person? 12:09 The scary answer is, no one knows. 12:14 Reunification camps are hugely controversial. 12:17 I think what we need is some fresh eyes on this problem. 12:20 We need to acknowledge that it's a problem and then someone needs to take it 12:26 seriously and look at it from the point of view of the kids. How do we fix this? 12:32 How do we not damage these kids for the rest of their lives? My research tells 12:39 me that it's a zero-sum game. One side wins and the other side loses and in the 12:46 end the people who lose the most are the kids. You know those pieces in 13:02 closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again. The sweater that somehow works 13:07 with everything, the jeans that always fit just right, or the bag you can carry everywhere. 13:13 Well, those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe, 13:16 and that's exactly what Quince does so well. 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Hey, this is Kevin. This is Joe and this is Nick from Hey Jonas 14:34 You know recently I learned that every 36 minutes another child in US is diagnosed with cancer 14:39 Think about that for a second some of the bravest warriors 14:41 You will ever meet aren't professional athletes or superheroes their kids in this fight for the past 28 years 14:47 With support from Hyundai their dealers and every new Hyundai sold hope-on wheels has contributed over 300 million dollars to 14:53 childhood cancer research, helping save more than 40,000 kids. 14:57 The Hyundai Hope on Wheels Handprint is the mark of a warrior, 15:00 a bold symbol of unity and strength, a mark of courage, 15:02 resilience, hope, and progress of every young warrior 15:05 battling cancer. 15:06 But we're not done yet. 15:08 We need your help. 15:09 Together, let's bring every warrior home. 15:12 Join our fight to end childhood cancer 15:13 at HyundaiWarriors.com. 15:15 Ryan Reynolds here from IT Mobile. 15:17 I don't know if you knew this, but anyone 15:18 can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month 15:22 plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have 15:26 one of your assistance assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super 15:31 easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. 15:34 Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro 15:39 rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra, 15:43 default terms at mintmobile.com. 15:45 The crispy chicken Crunchwrap slider that you love is back at Taco Bell. And it's 15:49 back with attitude, because now you could enjoy the all-white meat chicken nuggets inside 15:53 a slider-sized crunch wrap with Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. What do you love most? The 15:58 Crispy Chicken Nuggets, the Crunchwrap Slider, or maybe the Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch? 16:03 Yes, the answer is yes. The Crispy Chicken Crunchwrap Slider, a brand new classic is 16:08 back, only at Taco Bell. 16:20 Ever since divorcing Steve, Cindy's been in and out of court with him. First, 16:26 there was the litigation involving their former company, Wildcat Minerals. 16:30 Then came the civil trial that resulted in a $21.3 million verdict for Cindy and Kenny. 16:38 In between, Cindy and Steve have spent nearly a decade in family court. 16:43 Family court is this kind of quasi-court where the judge has a lot of discretion, 16:49 a lot, and they are the only person making decisions. 16:54 As Cindy learned, the family court system is notorious for being slow and expensive. 17:00 It's a place filmmaker Ginger Gentile has researched extensively. 17:06 In a murder case, you as a journalist can go and get any public records. 17:11 You can't walk into family court of most jurisdictions and pull documents, 17:15 and it's to protect the family, but it also means that it's incredibly secretive what goes on. 17:20 So some states like Colorado don't have a dedicated family court system, so divorces 17:26 and child custody cases end up in the courtrooms of district court judges. That's what happened 17:32 in Cindy's case. She often refers to it as family court, but in Colorado, it's more of an ad hoc 17:39 system, one that lacks specialized legal infrastructure. Everyone says we'll just go 17:44 a court just tell the judge what's going on and it might take you two years to get a day in court 17:51 and these judges don't have training in childhood psychology. They don't have training in the 17:55 latest science, for example. So depending on the jurisdiction, this could be a punishment 18:00 post for a judge. It could also be a post that they rotate in and out of. 18:06 Along with having untrained judges, I think a lot of people have fantasies about the court 18:11 system that there's some like forensic team who's going to like rush in and look at everything. 18:16 People will collect mountains of evidence, but no one's ever going to really read it. 18:23 So they just look at the top line, they look at what the psychologist says in the court case. 18:27 The biggest issue with the court system is the courts will always look for who's at fault. 18:32 And once they get a narrative in, they'll try to find supporting evidence for that. 18:37 So a lot of people eventually get very frustrated. 18:41 Cindy experienced that intense frustration. 18:45 You think you're going to walk into court, 18:46 you're going to get your kids back? 18:48 No, they're going to find some other weird way 18:50 of just keeping this going until the kids age out. 18:58 After Judge Mary Hoke restricted Cindy's parenting time 19:01 in 2019, Cindy went back to court over a dozen times. 19:06 And each time, she's been denied. 19:10 You go through every single stage of grief. 19:12 You go through that shock like this isn't happening. Is it really there's a bit of denial then the anger comes a 19:20 Lot of anger frustration 19:22 It was an emotional roller coaster to say the least 19:27 At one point judge Hoke gave Cindy a set of goals to work toward things like 19:32 refraining from including the children in adult conflict and one of them is 19:39 Not to be litigating 19:41 Judge Hoke's goal said, quote, 19:44 Cindy needs to place the needs of her children 19:46 over her continued focus on litigation 19:49 and being right or vindicated. 19:52 When I saw the mom needs to stop being focused 19:56 on being vindicated, it was kind of like, 19:59 what are you after here with that sentence? 20:02 Think about it. 20:03 If Cindy wasn't supposed to focus on being vindicated, 20:06 how could she prove to Judge Hoke 20:08 that Kenny did not abuse her children, especially when Judge Hoke asked her to bring proof of 20:14 Kenny's innocence. 20:16 She told me I needed to give her a piece of paper that said this never happened. 20:21 She literally told me that, so I'm thinking I'm going down the path she told me to. 20:25 When Cindy appealed DHS's ruling and got the abuse findings overturned, she thought 20:32 that was all the evidence Judge Hoke needed. 20:35 I give it to her. 20:36 her. That piece of paper meant nothing. She says, you haven't made the progress that I 20:43 need to see about being vindicated. I'm like, I am dedicated. I have an appeal that has 20:49 this overturned. 20:51 None of it made sense to Cindy. And the whole time she's punishing me. Well, you can't 20:57 get your kids back until your litigation's done, or you drop your litigation. But look 21:02 with the litigation proved. They were all wrong. They didn't want to be proven wrong." 21:09 If you remember, even after the district attorney dropped child abuse charges against Kenny, 21:16 Judge Hope came to her own conclusion. A voice actor will read from that court transcript. 21:23 I believe that something inappropriate occurred between Mr. Hamp and these children, okay? 21:29 I'm not being careless. I'm basing this on nine days of evidence is what I'm doing. Nine days, 21:37 all right? I can make the finding and I would posit that I am duty bound to do so and I have done 21:45 so. And then after DHS reversed their abuse findings, Judge Hoek held firm. She says, 21:54 well, I don't know why they overturned it. So I'm just going to assume that the abuse 21:57 occurred still. That's what I'm up against. I'm up against a judge who cannot see she's made a mistake, 22:07 will never acknowledge it, and uses my children against me until I agree with her. 22:16 Cindy felt like she was hitting a brick wall with Judge Hoke, so she tried a different route. 22:22 She hired an expert on parental alienation. My name is Dr. Jennifer Harmon. I started 22:28 studying parental alienation and other forms of family violence 13 years ago? 22:34 As you heard earlier, parental alienation is a controversial topic. It's not a diagnosable 22:41 medical condition, but rather a theory that turns up in family court. 22:46 Like I've seen parents say to their, you know, five-year-old, 22:50 hey, dad's going to be picking you up after school today, so get your backpack, 22:53 get everything ready. And the kid sits there for two hours waiting for dad to pick him up, 22:57 even though dad didn't even know that this was planned. 22:59 It wasn't planned, it was just told to them 23:01 so that mom could make the kid think 23:03 that dad forgot about him. 23:05 It's that kind of stuff that makes me do the research 23:07 I'm doing to protect kids, 23:09 because look at the kind of parent 23:11 these kids are living with. 23:14 Dr. Harmon reviewed numerous messages, 23:17 court filings, the DHS report, 23:19 the children's forensic interviews, 23:22 and other recorded interviews. 23:24 With parental alienating behaviors 23:26 and coercive controlling behaviors in general, 23:29 they are patterned. 23:30 You usually see them happen and escalate 23:33 in times where the parent feels they're losing control. 23:38 When you build a timeline, you say, 23:41 all right, well, when do people feel like 23:42 they're losing control? 23:43 They feel like they're losing control 23:45 when the other parent remarries or gets engaged. 23:47 They feel like they're losing control 23:49 when there's a big court hearing 23:50 or they lost something in court, right? 23:52 What she found confirmed what Cindy believed about her ex-husband, Steve. 23:59 This wasn't just a sex abuse allegation gone wrong. There was a lot more going on in the background. 24:08 Dr. Harman believes the timing of this allegation was calculated. 24:13 Cindy started dating somebody else and then there was some financial stuff that was going on. 24:18 but right after that happened 24:20 and she got a lot of money from a settlement, 24:22 things took a serious turn. 24:25 She goes off to get engaged, 24:26 and then they come back, 24:28 and there's this allegation of abuse. 24:30 And I could see it totally 24:32 with how Steve was reacting with police 24:35 and the things he was saying. 24:37 Like, oh, I've been waiting for years to get her 24:40 and comments about how they just wanted full custody. 24:43 And this wasn't just one-time statements. 24:45 I mean, there were emails, 24:46 There were different events that made it clear 24:49 that he had an agenda of what he was hoping to do, 24:52 and he was trying to find somebody 24:54 to get the leverage he needed to do it. 24:57 So that was my conclusion after looking through all of it. 25:01 Dr. Harmon put her findings in a 97-page report. 25:05 She even spent three days testifying in front of Judge Hoke. 25:10 Dr. Harmon said, this is coercive control. 25:12 This is domestic violence. 25:13 and Judge Hokes said, nope, I don't think so. 25:17 A voice actor will read from Judge Hokes' ruling. 25:21 She still seems deeply entrenched in alienation. 25:25 She seems deeply entrenched in vindicating her, 25:29 her significant other, 25:30 and moving forward with her version of events. 25:33 And she's welcome to do so, 25:35 but it's this court's position 25:37 that that is not in the best interests of her children 25:40 and is, in fact, emotionally damaging to her children 25:44 and emotionally impairing to her children to do that. 25:48 No matter who I put on my team, 25:51 Hoke was always going to be against it. 25:53 Didn't matter. 25:55 In 2021, Steve asked the court if he could take the children 26:00 and move not just out of state, but off the continent 26:04 to Hawaii. 26:06 And Judge Hoke allowed it. 26:08 Any hopes Cindy had about being a parent to her children went out the window. 26:13 With that ruling, she accepted that she probably would not see her kids again until they were 26:19 adults. 26:20 That was dark. 26:25 I hate the courts. 26:27 They don't want to see anything that doesn't conform to their views. 26:34 I don't know what's wrong with those people. 26:38 They're just, they're so myopic. 26:40 They're so epic. 26:43 In a story already marked by relentless heartbreak, 26:47 watching the court allow Steve to move the children to Hawaii 26:50 was Cindy's absolute rock bottom. 26:54 Here's Dr. Harmon again. 26:56 Like, it would be nearly impossible for her 26:59 to be able to see the kids at that point. 27:00 I think it's very sad. 27:02 It makes me sad to even think about how bad it got. 27:05 Cindy's effectively been erased from her kids' lives. 27:08 A lot of parents liken it to their children being dead, but they're alive, because they're 27:15 essentially dead to them, right? 27:16 The kids have cut them off completely. 27:19 It's the same kind of grief. 27:28 Hey, this is Kevin. 27:29 This is Joe. 27:29 And this is Nick from Hey Jonas. 27:31 You know, recently I learned that every 36 minutes another child in the U.S. is diagnosed 27:34 with cancer. 27:35 Think about that for a second. 27:36 Some of the bravest warriors you will ever meet aren't professional athletes or superheroes. 27:41 They're kids in this fight. 27:42 For the past 28 years, with support from Hyundai, their dealers, and every new Hyundai sold, 27:47 Hope on Wheels has contributed over $300 million to childhood cancer research, helping save 27:51 more than 40,000 kids. 27:53 The Hyundai Hope on Wheels Handprint is the mark of a warrior, a bold symbol of unity 27:56 and strength, a mark of courage, resilience, hope, and progress of every young warrior 28:01 battling cancer. 28:02 But we're not done yet. 28:04 We need your help. 28:05 Together, let's bring every warrior home. 28:07 Join our fight to end childhood cancer at hundaywarriors.com 28:11 I've always believed the way you start your morning sets the tone for everything that follows. 28:16 That first cup of coffee isn't just a routine, it's a ritual. 28:20 That quiet moment before the day really begins. 28:23 That's why I appreciate DeLonghi. 28:26 For over 50 years, they've combined Italian craftsmanship, thoughtful design, 28:30 and innovation for homes around the world. 28:32 As the number one espresso machine brand in the world, 28:34 They bring that same expertise to an espresso experience that feels effortless and makes mornings a little more delicious 28:40 The machine looks beautiful in my kitchen, but it's also incredibly simple to use a quick espresso before heading out the door 28:47 Or a cappuccino on a slower morning 28:49 It turns an everyday moment into something worth savoring there 28:52 I say a damn fine cup of coffee right now with prime day in DeLonghi's summer sale save up to 40% off select machines 29:00 After all, if it's not Italian, is it even espresso? 29:03 To learn more, visit delongue.com 29:05 or search Delongue Espresso Machines on Amazon. 29:09 Happy brewing. 29:11 This is Chelsea Halner from Dear Chelsea. 29:13 If you travel a lot with your dog like I do with dogs, 29:15 feeding them well on the road 29:16 can get surprisingly complicated. 29:19 Especially when you're touring 30 plus cities, 29:21 staying in hotels, flying, driving 29:23 and basically living out of a suitcase. 29:25 Bros and dog food sounds great 29:26 until you realize you don't exactly 29:28 we have a freezer backstage. 29:30 That's why I started bringing just fresh 29:31 from just food for dogs. 29:33 It's real fresh dog food made with human grade ingredients 29:36 with meat and vegetables you can see in the bowl 29:39 but the difference is it's shelf stable 29:41 which means I don't need a freezer or a cooler 29:44 and there's no prep. 29:45 So now I can throw a few packs in my bag 29:47 and Doug still gets a healthy meal wherever we are. 29:50 Doug absolutely loves it and I like knowing 29:53 I am feeding my baby something 29:54 that's actually good for him. 29:56 It's also the number one vet recommended fresh dog food made without preservatives or fillers 30:02 Go to just food for dogs calm and get 50% off your first order 30:07 Can the v6 niece on frontier tow a 6,000 pound boulder sure it can 30:12 Can and pull a stuck atv out of a ditch one make it three 30:17 Can it find the path when the map ends? 30:20 What map can it out truck the Tacoma and go off the off-road? 30:36 After winning a $21.3 million verdict, Cindy once again returned to Judge Hoke's courtroom. 30:56 She hoped the ruling would finally unlock the custody stalemate she'd been in for the 31:01 past four years. 31:03 And this time, it worked. 31:05 Well, sort of. 31:07 A voice actor will read from Judge Hoke's order. 31:11 This court restricted mother's parenting time primarily on mother's refusal to accept the 31:16 allegations of abuse against Mr. Hamp. 31:19 But Judge Hoke wrote that the civil verdict was significant evidence that Kenny did not 31:25 abuse the children. 31:27 If the sexual abuse of one or more of the children did not happen, that finding 31:32 removes the primary basis for the court's restriction on mother's parenting time. It also 31:37 removes the need for mother to comply with the court's treatment goals the court previously stated 31:43 mother had to meet. In other words judge hoax goals were moot. The court is then left with 31:50 how to proceed. The court vacates the restrictions on mother's parenting time 31:54 but does not order any parenting time for mother at this time. This order is in the 32:00 best interests of the party's minor children. 32:05 It's a confusing ruling, 32:07 but Judge Hoke allowed the children 32:09 to continue to live with their father, Steve. 32:12 They wouldn't allow the children to be removed from Steve. 32:18 This is so outrageous. 32:19 This is so not normal. 32:21 It just keeps getting weirder and more bizarre 32:24 every time we had to court. 32:26 My entire case has been a complete disaster 32:28 from beginning to today. 32:31 And I still don't have my kids. 32:33 I mean, we're going on seven years now. 32:37 Judge Hoke ordered reintegration therapy. 32:41 Okay, stick with me here. 32:43 Reintegration is different than being sent to reunification camps. 32:48 It's an intensive type of therapy to reunite parents and children. 32:53 Generally speaking, this type of therapy takes well over a year. 32:57 And by the time it began, Cindy's daughter was 18 and had aged out of the system. 33:03 So therapy included Cindy, Steve, and the twin boys. 33:09 Due to HIPAA rules, Cindy can't comment on how that therapy is going, as for Cindy's 33:14 relationship with her daughter. 33:16 I reached out to my daughter on her 18th birthday when we sent flowers to the school. 33:21 And I reached out to her through a text and I would love to talk. 33:26 And she just says she wants nothing to do with me. 33:30 She was the last one to turn. 33:33 Cindy and Kenny's engagement has been on hold for years, 33:37 ever since it began really. 33:39 We've been delaying it just because we wanted the kids at the wedding. 33:44 But it's looking less and less like that's ever going to happen. 33:48 I'm just hoping that maybe in the next year or so, I'll hear from her. 33:58 Earlier this summer, we spoke with Steve. 34:01 We even exchanged a few messages with him about doing an interview. 34:05 A voice actor will read from Steve's email. 34:09 As we discussed, I have concerns. 34:13 I understand that your deadline is late summer. 34:16 You mentioned that you attempted to contact me via Gmail address. 34:19 address. I do not have a Gmail address. I am also on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. 34:27 A message could have been sent through any of these platforms. As your team conducts 34:32 investigative journalism, I am really struggling to understand how you could not find me. 34:39 My address and phone numbers are also public. 34:42 work. To be clear, in 2025 and 2026, we messaged Steve, although Steve claims that the Gmail 34:51 account we messaged does not belong to him. Additionally, we reached out to three of Steve's 34:58 lawyers, Steve's niece, and even Steve's mother Oleda. At the time of this recording, 35:04 we haven't heard back from any of them. Earlier this summer, Steve sent us a follow-up 35:10 email. A voice actor will read from that. I believe that you stated that you attempted to reach my 35:16 mother. She has no record of your firm emailing or calling. It's confusing that you found my 35:23 daughter's email address but cannot locate mine or mother's. In July of this year, we again 35:30 messaged Elada through her email text and Facebook. We have not heard back. We also sent 35:36 Steve an outline of questions we hope to discuss. 35:40 A month later, we followed up with him. 35:42 At the time of this recording, we have not heard back from Steve. 35:55 If you remember, it wasn't Cindy who came to us with this story. 35:59 It was Steve's second wife, Christine. 36:02 But Christine also hasn't agreed to do an interview, citing her ongoing legal issues. 36:09 And that's left Cindy and Kenny wondering what's on Christine's mind. 36:14 She still never, ever apologized and said she did anything wrong when she was a participant 36:23 in the manipulation, in the false narrative, and now she wants to be the victim as in she's 36:29 suffering and she has lost. 36:31 She had so many opportunities to turn this around. 36:36 As for Cindy, when we first approached her about sharing her story, she was hesitant. 36:43 It wasn't an easy decision. 36:44 she was concerned about how her children would react if they ever heard the 36:49 podcast. Ideally I hope they understand that I did it to help. It's not about 36:57 exposing their dad. It's not about embarrassing him. I'm doing this to 37:03 expose the system and how flawed it is and how it's failing families now that 37:09 I got caught up in it. You know it may not help my relationship with my kids 37:13 but I don't want my boys accused of doing something like this 37:17 and have them arrested and have them lose their lives
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