Show full transcript 0:41 Too much inventory, cost climb, too little, 0:44 production slows. 0:45 Grangers, $2 billion in odd hand inventory 0:47 helps you get what you need when you need it 0:50 so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. 0:53 Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. 0:57 Granger for the ones who get it done. 1:02 Tonight on DaveLine. 1:04 He said there has been a deceased male found. 1:08 I could hear my mom screaming, 1:10 my baby, my baby. 1:12 I knew it was Kirby. 1:16 He was an entrepreneur. 1:18 Yes, he did a golden silver business. 1:21 When we say that he would carry cash around, 1:23 This is not your average amount of cash. 1:26 No. Several hundred thousand dollars is what I've been told. 1:30 I do believe that his business could have made him a target. 1:35 You two put up cameras. 1:36 And we caught him cutting one of the camera cables. 1:40 David Barnes was a petty thief who had worked for Kirby. 1:45 We could clearly tell that he knew more than he was telling us. 1:48 He was going to do this. 1:51 There was a lot more secrets in my home than I realized. 1:54 You think it's the entire family who are all involved? 1:57 Yes. 1:57 I felt my life was in danger. 2:00 The betrayal would be incredible. 2:03 The betrayal is incredible. 2:05 He had a great eye for gold and antiques, but did he miss the killer right under his 2:10 nose? 2:11 I'm Lester Holt, and this is Dateline. 2:22 Here's Andrea Canning with the betrayal of Kirby Carpenter. 2:32 At the northernmost edge of Mississippi, you'll find Tippa County, where rolling hills melt 2:37 into lush forests and green pastures. 2:41 At its heart, the county seat of Ripley, home to just over 5,000 people. 2:46 One of those people who always stood out was entrepreneur, Kirby Carpenter. 2:51 Kirby, he lived so big. 2:52 He dreamed big. 2:53 Taken the world by the horns. 2:55 Yes. 2:55 The world was his. 2:57 You know, that's how he lived. 2:59 His store, Mississippi Gold, Silver and Coin Exchange, like its owner, drew a lot of attention. 3:05 At just 36 years old, Kirby was a self-made millionaire. 3:10 An extraordinary achievement in this modest Mississippi town. 3:14 Casey Barnes is Kirby's sister. 3:16 He was one of those people that, if you were out and about in town, you were going 3:19 to run into him. 3:20 Well liked? 3:20 Very well. 3:21 Casey says the family was proud of Kirby's success and he often shared it 3:26 with them. On Thanksgiving Day 2022, he hosted them at his sprawling country 3:30 home. Kirby's mom, Maddie Jane Jones, lived a few miles away. It was great that 3:36 day. Everybody was just happy to be together. We had traditionally always had 3:40 Thanksgiving at mom's, but Kirby and Caitlin were adamant that we have it 3:44 at his house. Caitlin Spence was Kirby's girlfriend. They lived together 3:48 and had just welcomed a newborn baby named Anola. 3:52 Caitlin's parents, Jeff and Karen, 3:53 were staying with them to help out. 3:55 And the two families celebrated the holiday together. 3:59 It was warm enough for us to eat outside. 4:02 We smoked a turkey, we baked a turkey. 4:04 Maddie Jane brought the cornbread dressing over. 4:07 Then it was time to say good night. 4:09 Did everything seem fine? 4:11 It did seem fine. 4:13 Casey remembers her brother looking happy 4:14 as they headed out to their cars. 4:16 Waving to me from the garage, his hair just so, you know, in the nice outfits that he always wore. 4:27 Just eight days later, a Friday afternoon, Caitlin was outside with baby Enola when she made a terrible discovery. 4:36 I was coming down the hill when you come around the bend, you can see the back of our house. 4:44 That's when I saw the tarp blowing that was over Kirby's body. 4:48 and I saw his cowboy boots, and it hit me. 4:54 I remember going to my knees. 4:57 I remember getting, you know, 4:58 like just immediately dialing 911. 5:02 Are you telling me he's passed away? 5:12 Chris McAllister, chief investigator 5:14 with the Tippa County Sheriff's Department 5:16 arrived at the scene. 5:18 What do you see when you arrive here? 5:19 Several officers, sheriff was out here. 5:22 So this is already an active crime scene. 5:24 It is. The first thing I saw was his cowboy boots sticking out from underneath a curtain. 5:29 Over the curtain was a truck toolbox. There were several other truck toolboxes that were 5:34 stacked up as well. 5:35 Do you think like holding it down so it wouldn't blow away? 5:38 That's what I think it was to keep the wind from blowing it away. 5:42 Investigator McAllister is also the county coroner. 5:45 I examined the body and I saw a shotgun blast to the neck, shoulder area, chest 5:51 area. 5:52 Casey was at lunch when her phone rang, a horrible, horrible phone call. 5:57 Yes, it was a first responder from the fire department. 6:00 He didn't have to say much because I could hear my mom screaming in the background. 6:04 And I didn't know what had happened, but I knew something terrible had happened. 6:08 Are you being told what is happening? 6:11 No, I'm not being told anything. 6:12 When I seen the officer standing there and I just took off running. 6:16 Running where? 6:17 To where they were standing. 6:19 and I saw a lot of blood, dry blood. 6:24 It looked like leather. 6:26 It was just like this from here down. 6:30 That's so hard to see. 6:32 His eyes was open, looking at me. 6:34 Open. 6:36 And he, Kirby, always had the most beautiful blue eyes. 6:42 His final moments must have been of such fear. 6:46 That's the part that has haunted me so bad because any time Kirby, even from when he was 6:54 a little bitty boy, if he needed help in the end, my mom always helped. 7:00 You couldn't help him this time. 7:02 No matter what, I couldn't help him that time. 7:06 As the grief set in, Maddie Jane turned to the question that mattered most. 7:11 Who killed Kirby? 7:12 Did you make a pact with yourself in that moment that you were going to find out who 7:17 did this and that they were going to pay? 7:19 I said two things. 7:21 I will not rest until I take my last breath. 7:25 I will fight it. 7:27 No matter what. 7:28 Kirby's family would do whatever it took to get justice. 7:32 But the closer they got to answers, the more painful the truth would become. 7:37 I said, Carolyn, there's a good chance I'm going to die this morning. 7:39 If I go down, just call 911 and run for cover. 7:42 There is a man sitting in jail with a secret 7:45 who is about to turn this case upside down. 7:48 Be quiet, keep your mask shut, or you could be next. 7:51 The betrayal would be incredible. 7:54 The betrayal is incredible. 7:55 Kirby's family says that you are a cold-blooded killer 7:58 and you did this out of greed. 8:13 As lead investigator Chris McAllister 8:16 continued to look into Kirby's murder, 8:18 he made an important discovery. 8:20 Kirby's body had been moved. 8:22 It appeared to be drag marks 8:23 that they were right in this area right here. 8:27 Like a body being dragged? 8:28 Yes, that's what it looked like. 8:30 Since you're thinking he's been moved, 8:32 where do you think he was actually shot? 8:33 Leave in this carport. 8:35 So he would have been maybe getting out of his truck 8:37 coming in here? 8:39 Yes. 8:39 Do you think someone was waiting for him then? 8:41 I do. 8:42 He had his keys in his hand. 8:44 When he got out, I'm supposing to go unlock the door. 8:47 or we found his keys laying beside a garbage can 8:50 that had been turned over. 8:52 Law enforcement secured the crime scene 8:53 and asked Kirby's family to leave 8:55 while they collected evidence. 8:57 His sister, Casey, could barely bring herself to go. 9:00 I just couldn't leave him with people 9:02 who didn't know him and didn't love him. 9:04 It's like you had been protecting him, you know, 9:06 as the big sister and now here you were 9:08 and protecting him in a different way. 9:11 Yeah. 9:12 Casey had always looked out for Kirby, 9:14 the little brother with the big personality. 9:17 He was full of life from the time he was little 9:19 until the time that his life was taken. 9:22 Kirby had a big family, two half sisters on his mom's side 9:25 and three half brothers on his dad's. 9:28 Robbie Carpenter is Kirby's younger brother. 9:31 How close were you with Kirby? 9:33 Very close. 9:34 He was someone I looked up to, I admired him. 9:36 He was one of a kind in our area. 9:38 He wasn't afraid to be who he was. 9:41 He knew how to keep everybody entertained 9:44 When he walked in the room, he was the center, and everybody knew it. 9:50 Music. 9:51 Music. 9:51 Lots and lots and lots of songs. 9:54 After high school, Kirby joined the Marines. 9:57 He graduated from basic training, but his military career was cut short due to a heart 10:01 defect. 10:02 That disappointment didn't hold him back. 10:04 He learned how to trade gold and silver and became an expert buying and selling 10:09 all kinds of antiques, from guitars to old movie scripts. 10:12 He knew everything about everything. 10:14 He was like a walking encyclopedia. 10:17 He's a jack of all trades. 10:18 Yep. 10:19 And a master of many, I always said, 10:22 usually you'll hear everybody say, 10:24 he's a jack of all trades, master of none. 10:25 Not right. 10:26 This is the opposite. 10:27 Hey, you're right. 10:28 Kirby had bought the original manuscript 10:31 from the Blazing Saddles movie. 10:35 We don't need no spanking budget. 10:37 Gene Wilder. 10:38 From years and years ago, yes. 10:40 He was so excited and I remember him getting frustrated with us because we weren't as excited 10:45 as he was about it. 10:46 Was there anything Kirby didn't try to sell or create a business out of? 10:51 Right. 10:52 He could move a dollar bill for sure. 10:54 He was good at it. 10:55 That's what I admired most about it. 10:57 About him was just his, I wouldn't call it a hustle, but it was a clean hustle. 11:02 The district attorney, Ben Creekmore, often spent time at Kirby's store on Main Street. 11:06 If we ever had a trial at the conclusion of the trial waiting on the jury to come back a lot of times 11:12 I would take a walk around downtown 11:14 I would go in Kirby's store and see what interesting finds that he had had kind of to just decompress for a moment 11:21 Well, you're waiting for the verdict plus I play guitar and he loved music. He loved the old vintage guitars 11:29 By 2020 he had a small-town Empire. He owned the Golden Silver shop a liquor store and a steakhouse diner 11:36 Kirby had a former girlfriend shared custody of a son named Townes, but he still had not found the one 11:42 Then along came Caitlyn raised in Pennsylvania 11:46 She moved to Mississippi to go to vet school 11:48 But changed course and worked her way up to manager of a tractor supply company store 11:53 It happened to be right next door to Kirby's liquor store my team and he conspired 11:59 For him to to obtain my number. I 12:05 He was very charming and magnetic and so we started dating. 12:11 Could he be romantic? 12:12 Very. 12:13 And our early dating, I mean, he certainly swept me off my feet. 12:17 She was down to earth, a country girl like all of us. 12:20 We felt like she was good for Kirby and Kirby was good for her. 12:22 We just felt like she was part of the family. 12:24 And Kirby got along with Caitlin's parents, Jeff and Karen, who were living with them 12:28 to lend a hand with baby Enola. 12:30 How is Kirby as a dad? 12:32 My favorite thing to think about is Kirby as a dad. 12:35 A typical happy-doting father is how I would describe him. 12:39 Towns and Enola were his world. 12:41 Once you've got a boy and then you have that girl, 12:45 it's like it gives you a calming, 12:48 and I've seen that calming in Kirby. 12:50 I think he was happy to be able to have his son 12:54 who he loved very much and a little girl to love on. 12:58 Now, his two children were left without a father, 13:01 and investigators had to turn Kirby's life inside out. 13:04 They started with his businesses, which were primarily cash-based. 13:08 Kirby was known to carry two things on him at all times, 13:11 his pistol and a satchel full of money. 13:14 Both were missing from the scene. 13:16 When we say that he would carry cash around, 13:18 this is not your average amount of cash. 13:21 No. Several hundred thousand dollars is what I've been told 13:24 and, you know, possibly gold, silver and stuff he's traded for. 13:28 At one time. 13:29 At one time. 13:30 There could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. 13:32 Yes. 13:33 Investigator McAllister thought maybe this was a robbery that turned violent, or maybe 13:38 a business deal that went south. 13:40 He scoured the scene for clues and found something promising. 13:44 Security cameras everywhere. 13:46 What would they reveal? 13:48 This is like a goldmine, potentially. 13:50 It is. 13:56 Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that the new customers who bundle and 14:01 save with progressives save hundreds. 14:03 Because switching your home and auto insurance is better than cutting down on those iced lattes you love. 14:10 Switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. 14:15 Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company, Affiliates and other insurers. 14:21 Not available in all states. 14:23 Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? 14:29 Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. 14:31 You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. 14:37 No new tools. No extra logins. 14:40 Just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. 14:45 Make work less work. 14:47 Try Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. 14:52 The case that shocked Massachusetts. 14:54 A pregnant young woman, dead. 14:57 A former Stoughton police officer accused of her murder. 14:59 here. Now he's on trial. NBC 10 Boston is inside the courtroom every day, following every 15:05 twist, every revelation, and every critical moment. With expert legal insight and analysis 15:10 night after night, this is coverage you won't find anywhere else. Commonwealth Confidential, 15:16 the Sandra Birchmore case. Download the podcast today. Watch full episodes on the NBC 10 Boston 15:21 YouTube channel. 15:30 Kirby Carpenter was known to carry valuables with him when he was out. And inside 15:34 his home, he kept hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coins and collectibles. 15:39 McAllister had to consider whether Kirby's killer came to rob him, 15:43 but a few clues at the scene gave him pause. So it's becoming clear that whoever did this, 15:48 you know, went to some effort to move the body and to hide him. 15:52 Yes. 15:53 Which kind of flies in the face a little bit of a robbery. 15:57 It does. I would think whoever robbed somebody and shot and killed them would have got 16:03 out of there as fast as they could. 16:05 They wouldn't have took the time to try to move his body. 16:07 And what kind of robber would leave this? 16:10 When we checked Kirby's pocket, found about $2,800 cash. 16:15 Then the investigator spotted something he hoped 16:17 would change the entire investigation. 16:20 Security cameras inside and outside Kirby's house, 16:23 multiple angles. 16:25 This is like a goldmine, potentially. 16:27 It is, yes, but our look doesn't work that way. 16:30 What happened when you started looking to see if you could find the footage? 16:35 The sink box, we could not find it anywhere. 16:39 The sink box is what connects, like collects all the footage for all the cameras. 16:43 He had a blink system and it has a sink box that records what's on the video 16:49 and could not find the sink box. 16:52 A dead end, he got to work creating a timeline to figure out when Kirby was murdered. 16:57 Putting on your coroner's hat, what observation did you make? 17:01 That he had been here a while. 17:03 It had rained. 17:04 It had been a storm. 17:06 Looking at his body, he told me he had been here probably a couple of days. 17:10 Then, McAllister looked inside Kirby's truck. 17:13 There's stuff everywhere. 17:15 There were several guns and receipts from different stores, 17:18 including the local grocery store. 17:20 The strangest thing we found was four lamb chops. 17:23 From Kroger? 17:24 Yes. 17:25 Okay, so this is dinner, it sounds like? 17:27 Yes." 17:28 Security video captured Kirby at the grocery store Wednesday at 6.11 p.m. 17:33 He was wearing the same clothes when he was found dead two days later. 17:37 McAllister concluded that Kirby was killed as he returned home from Kroger. 17:42 That timeline made sense with what Caitlyn said when she was interviewed by an investigator 17:46 at the scene. 17:47 So the last time you truly say him was Wednesday morning. 17:51 And he was still sleeping. 17:52 And he was the only one, you know, only one in the house. 17:54 She told the investigator that before finding his body she hadn't seen Kirby 17:59 for two days. But Caitlin says it wasn't unusual for him to disappear. You say 18:04 there was another side to Kirby. While he could be fun and loving, there was a 18:09 darker side to him. Yes. I say Kirby one and Kirby two because they were complete 18:16 opposites of each other. Kirby could be a really hard man. He had very high 18:21 highs and very low lows. 18:23 He would stay out late or not talk to you for a time? 18:27 Yes. 18:27 He would often go out at night and when he came home would be when he came home. 18:34 She says one of Kirby's bad moods started after the Thanksgiving weekend. 18:38 Her parents, who had been there for months helping with the baby, had packed up and 18:41 left to go home to Virginia. 18:43 We had to get back to real life and Kirby did not want to deal with real life on 18:49 Tuesday night so he shut me out, went into his bedroom and stopped talking to me for the night. 18:56 So Wednesday was strained between us. She told investigators that later that evening she was 19:01 running an errand at Walmart with baby Enola and texted Kirby about dinner but didn't hear back. 19:07 I asked him if he wanted to have Chinese because I was right there and I got no reply. 19:13 She says she didn't leave Walmart right away. Before I left to go home I breastfed Enola 19:19 in the parking lot. 19:20 So you come home from town, is Kirby back yet? 19:24 Kirby's truck was in the driveway, 19:25 but all the lights in the house were out. 19:28 The house was locked, but when I went inside, 19:32 nothing was out of place. 19:33 Where are you thinking Kirby is at this point? 19:36 Do you try to reach out to him? 19:37 I thought he was down at his cousins. 19:40 We're close enough to his cousins 19:42 that somebody could have come and picked him up. 19:44 She says she put the baby to bed 19:45 and then went to sleep herself. 19:47 I wake up and no Kirby in the house. 19:51 Do you reach out to him that morning to see if you can find him? 19:55 Does he respond? 19:56 No, he does not respond. 19:57 When he wasn't replying to me, I reached out to his mother and his sister. 20:02 Have you heard from him? 20:04 Have anyone heard from him? 20:05 And they had not heard from him. 20:06 On Friday, Caitlin called Kirby's mom again. 20:09 I finally just pinpoint asked her, 20:12 Kate, when is the last time you've seen Kirby? 20:14 She said, Wednesday morning, before I went to work. 20:17 I said, that's two nights ago. 20:19 So that's not sitting right with you? 20:21 No. 20:22 Are you getting worried at this point? 20:24 Oh, yes. 20:25 I sent him angry text messages. 20:27 I sent him frustrated, upset, new mother text messages. 20:33 Kaitlin, so she went outside with the baby 20:35 and climbed the hill behind their house looking for Kirby. 20:38 On the way back down, while on the phone with Maddie Jane, 20:41 Kaitlin found Kirby and made the 911 call. 20:47 Are you suspecting her at all? She's the significant other. Was there concerns about her? 20:53 I had concerns about her. 20:55 You want to know more? 20:56 Yes. 20:57 Investigators went to the Walmart, where Caitlin says she was that Wednesday night. 21:01 They pulled the store security video. What do you see on the footage? 21:04 Really, obviously, if you're entering the store and then when she exits the store, 21:09 she goes and sits in her vehicle and she stays there for a significant time. 21:14 The video shows Caitlyn sitting in her car where she says she breastfed Enola. 21:19 That meant Caitlyn wasn't home when Kirby was killed. 21:22 Her alibi checked out. 21:24 And pretty soon investigators were looking in a different direction. 21:27 Courtesy of something Maddie Jane found. 21:31 So there's a note that could potentially point to his killer. 21:47 Long before Kirby Carpenter was shot dead on his own property, his brother Robbie 21:52 says Kirby was haunted by a premonition. 21:54 When he started getting wealthy, he just had this feeling that someone someday would come 22:00 and try, try to take what he had. 22:03 Take it. 22:04 That's an omen when you think about him being that concerned. 22:08 When he went to do golden silver deals, I would go along with him, you know, make sure 22:13 nothing went wrong with that. 22:15 Yeah. 22:15 I had his back. 22:16 Kirby's sister Casey says his business had him negotiating with strangers all the time. 22:20 He might have someone call him and want to meet to look at coins, to look at gold, to 22:25 look at silver or he might run up on a deal on Facebook and go meet someone, you know, 22:31 to purchase something and he would have the cash on hand to pay for those things. 22:35 Was it the nature of Kirby's business that he would have arguments with people inevitably 22:41 because of, you know, he's not working at a shoe store? 22:44 Yeah, absolutely. 22:45 So, you know, because it was large amounts of money exchanged between people. 22:49 Money causes disagreements. 22:52 Absolutely. 22:53 I do believe that his business could have made him a target, for sure. 22:57 He was a hard man. 22:59 He didn't mince words, and he was confrontational. 23:04 During her conversation with investigators, the day Kirby's body was found, Katelyn described 23:09 a recent confrontation Kirby had over a business deal. 23:12 He had a conversation over speaker phones with the guy that bought his liquor store. 23:18 Monday or Tuesday, of this week. 23:23 That man's name was Ray Palmer. 23:25 He and a small group of investors had bought Arrow had wine and spirits from Kirby. 23:29 So it was almost a year since he had sold the liquor store, and Kirby had been back 23:35 and forth with him throughout the whole year on, you know, trying to collect. 23:39 Ray and his investors still owed Kirby close to $200,000. 23:42 dollars. Kirby had decided that he was done waiting and that he was gonna call 23:48 in the loans. Kirby got ahold of Ray, put the phone call on speakerphone. Had Ray 23:53 threatened Kirby that you know of? Yes, he threatened Kirby Tuesday night. This is 23:59 before he was killed. The Tuesday before he was killed, yes. He said, Kirby, this is 24:04 the kind of money that families get hurt over. A little over 24 hours later, 24:09 Kirby was dead the timing of this fight happening just before Kirby is killed 24:15 right definitely has to pique your interest right it did special agent 24:19 Josh Jarvis with the Mississippi Bureau of Investigation joined the case and 24:24 anytime of course when it's a large amount of money you need to talk to that 24:28 person either to eliminate them or to see you know did this person have 24:33 anything to do with it agent Jarvis tracked him down Palmer admitted owing 24:39 Kirby the Money, but denied making any kind of physical threat. 24:43 And as Alibi, Palmer said he was at the liquor store the night Kirby was killed. 24:47 We felt totally comfortable that he was telling us the truth, had nothing to do with it, he 24:52 was at work the day that it happened. 24:54 But Palmer wasn't the only person Kirby was feuding with. 24:58 As Maddie Jane discovered when she found a note her son left behind. 25:01 It described a dust-up with a man named David Hancock. 25:05 David Hancock is another person that Kirby may have had a strained relationship with. 25:11 Mr. Hancock is the person that Kirby had purchased the diner from. 25:16 The little steakhouse diner that he had in Dumas. 25:19 There was a squabble between the two of them. 25:21 Mr. Hancock said that Kirby had owed him some money. 25:24 So Kirby's relationship with David Hancock was so bad that he actually left a note? 25:29 Right. He left a note that, you know, that David had threatened him. 25:32 Kirby felt threatened enough. 25:34 Well, he wanted it written out just in case. 25:37 He wrote it down? 25:38 Right. 25:38 Yes. 25:39 In the note, Kirby describes a nasty call from Hancock. 25:43 He stated that he was going to see me in the street 25:45 and shoot me in the face. 25:47 David also stated that he had friends in Ripley 25:50 that would drag me out in the street and shoot me 25:52 and leave me laying. 25:54 Is this something that the police are told about immediately? 25:57 Well, they knew it real quick. 25:59 I made sure that they seen it. 26:01 According to Kirby's note, Hancock wasn't the only one out to kill him. 26:06 He wrote, 26:07 David states that Adam Gates also has intent to take my life. 26:11 Adam Gates was a tow truck operator who Casey says had a beef with Kirby, too. 26:16 Kirby had made comments to us about he and Adam being into it, so to speak. 26:20 I believe that at one point, some kind of confrontation occurred between Kirby 26:27 and Adam. 26:29 Investigator McAllister knew Adam Gates from around town. 26:32 He also knew there was no way Gates could be Kirby's killer. 26:35 Adam was deceased by the time before Kirby was ever killed. 26:40 That left David Hancock. 26:42 Investigators needed to find him. 26:44 This could be your man with a note like that. 26:46 This could be big. 26:47 Could be, yes. 27:00 Two weeks after Kirby's murder, family and friends said their goodbyes. 27:05 Did you feel the love from this small community? 27:08 Absolutely. I could not describe the support and the love that we received. 27:14 The community was just, you know, they were just there surrounding us for both the visitation and the funeral. 27:22 A funeral that was pure Kirby. 27:25 Kirby loved music and so we played songs that we knew Kirby loved. 27:29 There is a blues singer from our area. 27:33 He actually came and played a couple songs and sang. 27:37 How did you feel on that day? 27:43 How did I? 27:45 I felt numb. 27:47 It was a blur for Timmy. 27:49 Not a good day, not where you want to be, not where you want to see your partner, you know, 27:57 laying in a casket. 27:58 Kaitlin turned to her parents, Jeff and Karen, for support. 28:02 They'd driven back to Mississippi and were there for the funeral. 28:05 Kirby's loved ones were understandably on edge. 28:08 The preacher stood there and told us that day. 28:11 He said, I honestly believe the person that killed Kirby 28:14 is gonna be sitting under my voice today. 28:19 We were scared. We felt very unsafe. 28:21 We didn't know who it was. 28:22 That is scary. 28:23 Very scary. 28:25 On investigators' list of potential suspects, 28:27 one of the men Kirby called out in that note, Maddie Jane found, 28:31 restaurant owner David Hancock. 28:33 This could be your man with a note like that. 28:35 This could be big. 28:36 could be yes investigators very much wanted to talk to him and David 28:42 Hancock wasn't hard to find he came to the sheriff's office one day on his own 28:47 or did you call him in Kirby was killed he came up there on his own on his own 28:51 want to know how he would go about getting his $2,500 out of Kirby's 28:56 estate really yes if he's the killer would he really be coming by the 29:02 the sheriff's department looking for not that much money. 29:07 Exactly. 29:08 I mean, if I killed somebody and they owed me $2,500, 29:12 I wouldn't come to the sheriff's department 29:13 trying to figure out what I needed to do to get my $2,500. 29:17 I wouldn't be anywhere around. 29:19 What's more, whoever killed Kirby 29:21 left at least that much money right at the scene. 29:24 Kirby had $2,800 in his pocket. 29:27 That was more than enough to 29:28 To cover the debt. 29:29 To cover the debt. 29:30 That's exactly right. 29:30 McAllister crossed Hancock off his list. 29:34 The business deal gone wrong theory was not panning out, 29:37 leaving Kirby's killer still at large. 29:40 Since the murder, 29:41 Caitlin was still living at Kirby's house, 29:42 and her parents were staying there, too. 29:44 Even though Caitlin and Kirby had not been married, 29:47 it was home for her and the baby. 29:49 I think that we were all scared for her at that point. 29:51 There is someone out there who killed Kirby. 29:54 And what if they're still somewhere close by? 29:58 Kirby's family went by the house. 30:00 While they were there, Casey and Maddie Jane began to collect a few of Kirby's things. 30:05 That's when the relationship between the two families who should have been united in grief 30:09 began to unravel. 30:11 Maddie Jane discovered the combinations to several of Kirby's safes no longer worked. 30:16 The codes? 30:17 No, they've been changed. 30:19 They're not working. 30:20 You were the only person he trusted with the combinations. 30:24 I was the only person that had the combination of those. 30:26 Outside of Kirby? 30:27 Yes. 30:27 Then in the driveway, she noticed something. 30:30 Caitlin's dad, Jeff, had backed his Cadillac right up to the garage door. 30:34 Something just tells me pop his trunk. 30:38 And I opened that car door and reached straight down and popped the trunk. 30:42 And he had it loaded down with Kirby Silver. 30:47 Like Jeff Spence. 30:48 Yes. 30:48 His car was full of silver. 30:51 He sure was. 30:51 Was that shocking to you? 30:53 Shocking. 30:55 That's an understatement. 30:56 Kaitlin says her dad was not stealing the silver, but protecting it. 31:01 She admits she changed the safe codes and says that when Kirby's family started taking 31:06 things from the house, her dad was worried baby Enola would not get what was rightfully 31:10 hers. 31:11 My dad had decided that at this rate there would be nothing left for the kids and he 31:18 had removed items and, I mean, he hadn't removed them from the property. 31:23 They were, you know, put in his car in our driveway. 31:27 Your dad gets the idea to record some of this? 31:30 Yes. 31:33 Why did he have that idea? 31:35 Because we didn't know where it was going. 31:37 Because items were being taken out of the house. 31:40 In the video, Jeff could be heard talking about Kirby's mom, Maddie Jane, while Casey is crying. 31:45 Maddie? Maddie's grieving, but this is not the way to handle it. 31:49 He said, um, now Maddie, we don't need you down here causing problems. 31:53 and I was like, what is going on? 31:56 This is Kirby's house. 31:57 Exactly. 31:58 That's his mom. 31:59 Kirby's family took the silver out of Jeff's trunk 32:01 and called the sheriff's office. 32:03 The time we went out there, 32:05 we called the county prosecuting attorney 32:08 and he basically said that that part was civil 32:11 that we couldn't get involved. 32:13 Would it everybody believe everything where it is? 32:15 You're trying to solve a murder 32:17 and then you've got these two families feuding. 32:21 Right. 32:21 This was getting messy. 32:22 It was. 32:23 And would get even messier. 32:25 The families learned Kirby hadn't left a will. 32:28 We hired an estate attorney. 32:29 We wanted to ensure that everything that was left from Kirby was left for Enola in towns, 32:36 not who knows what done with by the Spences. 32:40 The court put Mattie Jane in charge of Kirby's estate, including the home he shared with 32:45 Kaitlin. 32:46 And then, Kaitlin, the baby and her parents, left for Virginia. 32:49 Yeah. 32:50 Within a couple of days after Kirby's funeral, Caitlyn and Enola left. 32:54 And within those first few weeks, we had some communication with Caitlyn, and she would 32:59 communicate back. 33:00 And then, eventually, all communication just stopped. 33:03 Yeah, and that's your niece. 33:04 Yes. 33:05 And so we were worried about Enola. 33:06 We couldn't hear from Enola. 33:08 We felt like, you know, if Cait loved Kirby the way she said she did, why was she 33:13 not trying to fight with us and get answers? 33:16 Katelyn says she was grieving and overwhelmed as a single mother to a newborn baby. 33:21 And if there was a lack of communication with Kirby's family, she says it's because 33:25 they became adversarial toward her. 33:29 Still, Kirby's family was growing impatient, with the Spences and the investigation. 33:34 I didn't think nothing was moving fast enough. 33:36 But Maddie Jane kept moving, and pretty soon she would find another piece of evidence 33:41 for investigators to look at, one that just might tell the real story. 33:45 I knew it had to be an inside job to him. 33:48 Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? 33:57 Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. 34:00 You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. 34:05 No new tools, no extra logins. 34:08 Just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. 34:13 Make work less work. 34:14 Try Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. 34:21 See something on the rack that caught your eye? 34:23 The one you're not sure how to wear. 34:25 A wear or with what? 34:27 We've all been there. 34:28 The good news? 34:29 Someone here already knows exactly what to do with it. 34:32 Just ask. 34:33 You have a stylist at Marisa's. 34:35 Corrupt people will always run for office, 34:38 but we have to stand up to them. 34:39 When a local journalist. 34:41 If officers do something that's against the law, 34:43 We're gonna write about it takes on a sheriff. We began getting allegations of violence 34:48 Nothing's more dangerous than the truth. These stories really got him angry. It was a complete bad house 34:54 It cost us everything. I knew they didn't like us. I've had no idea. They would talk about killing us from producer Rachel Maddow 35:01 Killed Barry print new documentary now streaming on peacock 35:14 With Caitlyn Jeff and Karen back in Virginia Kirby's mother began to clean out her son's house 35:20 In the safe room, she found something detectives had been looking for. 35:24 The missing sync box that recorded video from the home security cameras. 35:28 Okay, we're getting somewhere. 35:29 Yes. 35:30 What happens when you analyze it and you take a look? 35:33 The thumb drive that should have been in there to record was gone. 35:37 No thumb drive. 35:38 So you needed the actual... 35:40 I needed the actual thumb drive. 35:41 Physical thumb drive. 35:42 Yes, I did. 35:43 But it was not a complete dead end. 35:45 The missing thumb drive convinced investigators that someone had taken it to cover their tracks 35:50 And that meant he or she was likely someone who knew a lot about Kirby 35:55 Including how to get inside his house 35:57 You think whoever did this actually had a key to the house had a key or a new word a spare key was 36:04 That's narrowing down your potential suspect list. It is. I knew it was an inside then inside job 36:11 I knew it had to be an inside job deal. 36:13 Kaitlin and her parents all had easy access to the house. 36:17 But Kaitlin was at Walmart when Kirby was killed 36:19 and Jeff and Karen Spence had left Mississippi 36:22 in their Cadillac for Virginia the day before the murder. 36:25 How did you confirm that? 36:26 The Cadillac was on the tag reader in Knoxville, Tennessee 36:31 the night before Kirby's murder. 36:33 Which is on the way back to Virginia. 36:37 All we could do was sit and think about who did this 36:39 and talk about who did this. 36:40 The more they talked, the more Casey and Maddie Jane found themselves circling back 36:45 to Kaitlin's dad. 36:46 The fact that Jeff loaded his trunk up with bags and bags of Kirby's silver, it's almost 36:51 like he saw opportunity there and he took what he wanted. 36:57 McAllister was also thinking about the Spences and took a closer look at Jeff's and Karen's 37:02 alibis. 37:03 He pulled their phone records to check their whereabouts around the time of the 37:06 murder. 37:07 Karen's cell was clearly in Virginia, 37:09 but he couldn't confirm a location for Jeff's. 37:12 His phone, he was on it constantly, except for, 37:15 like, fall off the face of the earth about some time on the 29th, 37:19 and it didn't pop back on till later on, 37:22 like the 4th or 5th. 37:23 And that's before and after? 37:25 Yes. 37:26 Kirby was killed? 37:27 Yes. 37:28 It was very little activity. 37:30 There was some activity, but very little. 37:32 Suspicious, but not proof of anything. 37:34 So investigators and District Attorney Ben Creakmore, who had joined the case, 37:39 set out to uncover everything they could about the expenses. They quickly learned 37:44 Jeff, at one point a professional deer breeder, had an unusual criminal history. 37:49 He had already been arrested for a felony crime up north for stealing a 37:56 million-dollar deer. Who does that? Yeah, I mean it's a strange crime. 38:00 The deer was an enormous, white-tailed buck named Goliath, worth a million dollars because 38:06 of its breeding potential. 38:07 Jeff served nine months in jail for stealing the deer from another breeder. 38:11 I just looked up to him and felt like he was my great father. 38:17 This is Carolyn Owayo, Jeff and Karen's other daughter. 38:21 She says growing up, she believed her dad was wrongfully convicted. 38:24 I wrote him a letter every day because I felt like this is an innocent man just 38:28 sitting in jail right now 38:29 because they couldn't find the guy that did it. 38:31 Both Carolyn and Caitlin say their mom and dad 38:33 were good parents. 38:35 Overall, a lot of my memories of my childhood 38:37 are just, you know, a happy family. 38:40 A dillock childhood? 38:42 Exactly. 38:43 My mom and dad were very active in our lives. 38:46 I would say a very close loving relationship. 38:49 Were they at all your sporting events 38:51 or activities, things like that? 38:53 Oh, yes. 38:54 Yes, I taught Sunday school, where are soccer coaches, swim coaches. 38:59 The sisters grew up in Pennsylvania, where Mom Karen worked as a nurse, and Jeff tried 39:04 his hand at everything from the deer breeding, to landscaping, to beekeeping. 39:08 Did your dad ever have a regular job, or was it kind of a little of this, a little 39:12 of that? 39:13 A little of this, a little of that, he would get something started and then it just 39:16 never seemed to last very long as far as before something fell apart. 39:20 G.O.A.Y., a former police officer with the Marines, is Carolyn's husband. 39:25 How you doing, ma'am? 39:25 He got along great with his in-laws. 39:28 I thought I hit the jackpot. 39:29 It was something out of, like, what you would see off of, like, 39:33 everybody loves Raymond, where, like, they were the sweet, polite couple. 39:38 Soon after you two got married, Jeff and Karen started having 39:40 some pretty serious financial issues. 39:43 Yes, ma'am, very, very soon. 39:45 The newlyweds suggested they come live with them. 39:47 So, I was like, let's do that for a little while and we can help them find a place and 39:52 help them settle in somewhere they'll be comfortable with, like once they've recovered a little 39:57 bit from this setback. 39:59 A little while stretched into more than a year. 40:02 The parents even tagged along after Caroline and Gio found their dream home, a log cabin 40:07 on 10 acres of land in Virginia. 40:09 You felt so close to them that you offered for them to build a house on your property? 40:15 Absolutely. 40:16 It sounded like a perfect scenario. 40:18 They would have their own place. 40:20 What could go wrong? 40:22 Apparently everything. 40:24 I said, Carolyn, there's a good chance 40:25 I'm gonna die this morning. 40:27 If I go down, just call 911 and run for cover. 40:44 Before Kirby's murder, his girlfriend, 40:46 Caitlin's parents, Jeff and Karen Spence, 40:48 had been staying with them. 40:49 Very much like years earlier, 40:51 when they moved in with their other daughter, 40:53 Carolyn, and her husband, Gia. 40:55 Carolyn says that arrangement was a mistake 40:57 that nearly cost them everything. 40:59 You don't ever really imagine 41:00 that your parents have a second life. 41:02 It all started when Jeff began construction 41:04 on a house on their property. 41:06 Caroline and Gio say he hired a contractor 41:08 without getting a written proposal or contract, 41:11 putting the couple at risk for fines. 41:13 They say they confronted him about it. 41:15 This doesn't go well, though, right? 41:17 No. As we were talking, 41:20 he was increasingly irritated, agitated. 41:23 Like, he was very upset at both of us. 41:25 There's an anger in his eyes that I'm just not even understanding the level of like hatred at that point 41:32 Was this the dad you knew no he said, you know, your mom and I are out. We're done 41:36 You guys figure it out 41:38 Jeff and Karen abruptly quit the construction project leaving Carolyn and Gio on the hook for about a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars to fix the mess 41:47 By then the parents had moved to another location, but it wasn't the last Carolyn and Gio would see of Jeff 41:53 Then the sabotage started happening. 41:56 They say he came back to vandalize their property. 41:59 You two put up cameras. 42:01 Were you catching some things that, you know, could be considered disturbing? 42:06 Yes. He went behind the shed, and we caught him cutting one of the camera cables. 42:12 We had tied the gate, so he just cut it and then opened up the gate 42:17 to go back into the back of our property. 42:20 Then, he dismantled the gate altogether. 42:23 Carolyn and Gio called the sheriff's office. 42:26 That led to a falling out with her sister, Caitlin. 42:29 She said, did you call the cops on dad? 42:31 I said, yes. 42:32 She said, I've heard enough and hung up the phone. 42:35 Jeff Spence was arrested for destruction of property and trespassing. 42:39 But the military police officer and Gio made him wonder if his father-in-law was 42:43 up to something more sinister. 42:45 He thought back on a tense conversation he says he had with Jeff about the construction 42:49 issues. And right after that, Jeff proposed this. 42:54 He said, we want to get a million dollar life insurance policy on you that we will be happy 43:00 to pay for. 43:00 That's unusual. 43:01 That's a weird transition. We just kind of had a little mini argument and then you asked 43:07 to put a million dollar life insurance policy on me. So at this point, I felt my life 43:14 was in danger. I felt like he was going to find a way to take me out. He was 43:19 It was an avid hunter, a marksman. 43:22 Gio says one morning in particular left him on high alert. 43:25 There was a tree or log put across the driveway 43:28 at a 90 degree angle. 43:29 I know what an ambush looks like. 43:31 I went back inside and I said, 43:32 Carolyn, there's a good chance I'm gonna die this morning. 43:35 If I go down, just call 911 and run for cover. 43:38 There's no way to know how the log got there or why. 43:42 Later, the couple got a no contact order against Jeff. 43:45 In exchange, the trespassing and destruction charges 43:48 were dismissed. Caroline and Gio moved, and out of fear they didn't tell anyone, 43:53 including Caitlyn, where they were living. But when Caroline heard her sister was pregnant, 43:58 she reached out. 44:00 When we talked, it was strictly about, you know, the baby coming. I'm thinking that, 44:06 you know, this is just a time to support her. 44:08 After Anola was born, they found out that Jeff and Karen were staying with Caitlyn and Kirby. 44:13 In my mind, I was like, do I call them and warn them about who his father-in-law 44:18 our potential father-in-law is. 44:20 Did you? 44:21 No, to my regret, to my shame, I didn't make the call. 44:25 How did you get the news that Kirby was dead 44:28 and what were you told? 44:30 One day I felt like the Lord was speaking to me 44:33 and he said, go ahead and look him up. 44:35 So I opened the phone and I just, 44:37 I Googled his name and my stomach just dropped 44:42 and the first words I just, 44:44 it was just uttered out of my mouth to Carolyn. 44:46 I said, Carolyn, they killed him. 44:48 Caroline, did you call Caitlyn right away to ask her what happened? 44:53 Are you okay? 44:54 Yes. 44:55 I need to find out if Cait's okay, if Enola's okay. 44:58 So I called and I called again. 45:00 She's not picking up. 45:02 They say they followed the police investigation for a few weeks and then took action. 45:07 We decided to share the information we had and show the parallels we saw of what happened 45:14 to us and then what happened to Kirby. 45:16 The couple wrote an anonymous letter to law enforcement, urging investigators to look closely 45:22 at Jeff and Karen. 45:24 They accused them of a string of financial crimes and wrote this, please ensure due diligence 45:29 and investigate this couple so they do not harm any other person. 45:33 That letter really indicated to law enforcement that they're on the right track. 45:40 Carolyn and Gio didn't stay anonymous for long. 45:42 They eventually reached out to both Kirby's family and investigator McAllister. 45:47 I told him what we knew about him, and then what we had been through. 45:53 With that account, plus Jeff's attempt to take Kirby's silver and questions about 45:57 his alibi, Jeff was now the investigator's prime suspect. 46:02 But there was not a shred of physical evidence tying him to the crime. 46:06 There was no weapon, and they could not even prove he was in Mississippi the day of 46:09 the murder. 46:10 In order for Jeff to carry this out, he would have had to drive home to Virginia, 46:15 and then drive back to Mississippi, commit the crime, and then drive back to Virginia. 46:20 Yes. 46:21 Possible? 46:23 Possible. 46:24 Very possible. 46:25 You just weren't finding that connection that had him or his vehicle getting to Mississippi. 46:30 I was not. 46:32 Carolyn had an idea about that. 46:34 She told police how her dad would evade detection back when he was on probation for that deer theft. 46:39 He traveled across state lines and you know I said what if you're getting in 46:43 trouble with your probation and he was like oh when I have to do that I just 46:47 leave my phone with your mom and mom's covering for him and mom has his his 46:51 phone. McAllister had to consider whether Jeff had help from his wife and 46:55 his daughter Caitlyn. From the start he found Caitlyn's story suspicious 47:00 questioning why she didn't find Kirby's body for more than 36 hours. He 47:09 Kirby's body. 47:10 She told investigators she walked up the hill behind the house to look for him. 47:14 There's no way I don't believe a lady with a baby can climb that hill. 47:18 Yeah, because she says that the baby was on her chest. 47:21 Yes. 47:22 McAllister was certain Caitlyn was hiding something. 47:25 What would Caitlyn's motive be then? 47:27 Her and Kirby had been having problems. 47:30 Kirby has another child and it just went through a pretty nasty child custody thing. 47:36 I guess Caitlyn probably thought, hey, I don't have the money or anything like that to go 47:42 through this." 47:43 The investigator had his theories, but just that. 47:47 Not enough for an arrest. 47:49 Frustrating. 47:50 Yes, extremely. 47:52 But a potentially huge break was just around the corner. 47:56 That is, if you believe this guy. 47:58 That's what he said, think quiet, keep him nice yet, or you could be next. 48:03 Or notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? 48:13 Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. 48:16 You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. 48:22 No new tools, no extra logins. 48:24 Just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. 48:30 Make work less work. 48:31 Try Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini 48:37 Over the years I've met people whose lives were changed forever in a single moment in my new podcast before and after 48:45 I explore what happens after that decisive moment 48:48 personal powerful conversations with Colin Kaepernick, Jeremy Renner, Gabby Giffords and others 48:54 Join me wherever you get your podcasts 48:58 Listen to all episodes of Before and After with Lester Holt now, wherever you get your podcasts. 49:07 The midterms are just around the corner, and it's safe to say there's been a lot of noise about the election. 49:12 Well, now it's time to lock in. What's really on the ballot this November? And what's really at stake? 49:18 We'll get you up to speed on all of it. 49:21 I'm NBC News Chief White House correspondent Garrett Haig, and every Saturday from now to election day, 49:26 I'm hosting Here's the Scoop election edition. 49:29 We'll talk to some of the smartest voices 49:30 about the top issues that are going to define this election. 49:33 From President Trump's influence to the war with Iran, 49:36 to affordability and AI in politics, 49:39 we're diving into all of it 49:40 and what it could all mean for the direction 49:42 of the country. 49:43 Join me every Saturday. 49:45 Just search Here's the Scoop wherever you listen 49:47 and follow now. 49:59 Kirby's family never stopped hounding police 50:02 with questions about the investigation, 50:04 even as weeks turned into months. 50:06 Were you worried that the case would go cold, 50:09 as so many cases do, and time passes and just nothing? 50:14 I was. I was worried about that. 50:16 Very worried about it, but I wasn't gonna shut up. 50:20 They hoped talking about the case on social media 50:22 might shake out some new leads. 50:24 You started a Facebook group called Justice for Kirby, a page. 50:27 I did, and, you know, there's a lot of armchair detectives 50:30 out there. The true crime community's huge. 50:32 The family was growing frustrated. 50:34 The family was naturally because of that happening to their loved one in such a brutal way, really. 50:40 And no arrest. 50:41 No arrest. 50:43 Then, four weeks before the first anniversary of Kirby's murder, the case took a sudden turn. 50:49 Investigators arrested a man named David Barnes for a series of burglaries. 50:54 David was a guy that Kirby would hire often to do like small jobs with him. 50:59 If he needed someone to ride with him to load up like an antique car that he had purchased 51:04 or something, David was his guy. 51:06 Barnes, who had a long rap sheet, mentioned how much he missed Kirby. 51:10 Curious, investigators asked him if he knew anything about the murder. 51:14 I wish I could say who did it. 51:16 I don't know. 51:18 But they had a hunch he might be able to help them. 51:20 Agent Jarvis brought him in for another chat. 51:23 Trust me. 51:30 When we first started talking to him, he was apprehensive. 51:33 He would just kind of try to withdraw and stuff. 51:38 He started crying. 51:40 So, are you thinking with all of your experience, this man knows more than he is saying? 51:46 Right. 51:46 We could clearly tell that he knew more than he was telling us. 51:49 I believe you had nothing to do with it, but I think you know something you don't tell us. 51:55 I'm not. I'm not. I'm telling everything about it. 51:58 Jarvis kept up the pressure. 51:59 If you do know something, your friend deserves... 52:03 I know. 52:04 ...for you to tell us that so we can try and get justice for his death. 52:10 About 30 minutes into the interview, Barnes did an about face. 52:13 I can't believe but I'll do this. 52:16 Outspilled a story about the day Kirby was laid to rest. 52:20 I said, Kate, please tell me what happened. I need to know. Please. I need to know. 52:26 At the funeral home after Kirby's funeral, David went up to Caitlin and he said he asked her what 52:32 happened. He said Jeff Spence was right there watching and threatened him as he tried to 52:51 walk away. 53:02 This is a huge break in this case, to have a witness like this. 53:07 But of course they had to consider the source, a guy facing significant time behind bars. 53:13 Was David Barnes asking for a plea deal or something that would get him out of his burglary 53:19 mess? 53:19 Never has asked for that. 53:21 To this day, he still has not asked for that. 53:23 He's still in jail. 53:24 This was really the straw that broke the camel's back. 53:26 Yeah, it was a big break, for sure. 53:30 Investigators decided they had enough. 53:32 On November 30, 2023, one year to the day 53:35 that Kirby was murdered, US Marshals 53:38 with the help of local police arrested Jeff Spence 53:40 in Virginia. 53:42 Back in Mississippi, Investigator 53:44 McAllister asked Maddie Jane to come see him 53:46 at the sheriff's department. 53:47 He said, I want to show you something. 53:49 and he took me into one of the rooms and he's like looking up a video on his phone 53:54 and I look at it and he's like, he's got Jeff in handcuffs. I said, what? 54:03 Jeff Spence has been arrested. Yes, he'd been arrested. 54:07 What is going through your mind? I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm, like, my knees 54:11 just hit the floor. I'm like, oh my god. You know, I just started crying. I 54:18 I was so relieved to know that someone 54:22 was going to be held accountable. 54:24 But that wasn't all, right? 54:26 No, that wasn't all. 54:27 Karen Spence was also arrested in Virginia 54:30 and over 400 miles away at Caitlyn's 54:33 grandmother's house in Pennsylvania, 54:35 Marshall's brought Caitlyn in too. 54:37 Investigators believed even if Jeff pulled the trigger, 54:40 his wife and daughter helped with the plan. 54:42 The motive? 54:43 Greed. 54:44 Investigators theorized Jeff Spence 54:46 wanted the money in Kirby's satchel and the valuables kept in his safes. 54:50 You believe this was a family affair? 54:52 I believe it was. 54:53 Diabolical family affair? 54:55 I do. 54:56 Explain what that is like to find out that law enforcement believes your mom, your dad, 55:03 your sister are all involved in a murder plot. 55:07 I mean it's it's shocking but mostly it's just heartbreaking. 55:11 You're wanting them to be the people that you thought they were." 55:16 All three were charged with murder. 55:20 Now, investigators went looking for more evidence to bolster their case, executing search warrants 55:25 for the Spence's electronics, vehicles, and homes. 55:29 But the most explosive evidence would come from the woman at the center of it all. 55:34 You're ready to talk. 55:35 And this is going to change everything about this case. 55:39 Yes. 55:52 Kirby's family was relieved. 55:54 Jeff Spence was finally behind bars. 55:57 But the arrests also brought the painful realization that 56:00 Caitlin, someone they loved and treated like family, 56:03 could be involved too. 56:04 Kirby's family believes that you knew your father was going 56:07 to kill Kirby, that you helped plan it, 56:10 that all of you were involved. 56:11 Your dad, you, your mom, what do you say to them? 56:14 That's not the truth. 56:16 I loved Kirby. 56:17 I didn't kill him, and I didn't have anything to do 56:20 with the killing of him. 56:22 I lost him, too. 56:27 Katelyn says the story David Barnes told investigators 56:30 about Kirby's funeral was just that, a story. 56:33 She said, my baby killed him. 56:36 I didn't have that conversation with him. 56:38 The story is not true. 56:40 Why do you think he would make that up? 56:42 Because I think he was influenced 56:46 to try and solve the case. 56:49 He had gotten into some more trouble. 56:52 That's when he, you know, told, said that 56:55 that was a conversation I had with him. 56:58 She says she was blindsided when Marshall showed up 57:00 on her doorstep, guns drawn. 57:03 Shock, but also, I knew I had not killed Kirby. 57:08 My daughter was my focus with the guns drawn. 57:14 I mean, honestly, in that situation, 57:16 And what do you, what do you, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a good girl. 57:20 Like I, the cops are here. 57:22 I'm obeying anything that they are saying and doing. 57:26 Caitlin, Karen and Jeff all pleaded not guilty 57:29 and sat behind bars. 57:31 16 months went by and then. 57:34 Caitlin's attorney had reached out 57:37 and said that she had some information 57:39 and that she wanted to talk. 57:41 You're ready to talk. 57:43 And this is going to change everything about this case. 57:47 Yes. 57:48 Caitlin was brought from her jail cell 57:50 to a meeting at the Tippa County Sheriff's Department. 57:53 You also had the right to stop answering any time 57:55 until you talked to the lawyer. 57:56 You understand those rights? 57:57 Yes, sir. 57:58 Caitlin was there with her attorney, Tony Faris, 58:01 to tell police about what she says happened 58:03 after Kirby's murder, 58:04 starting with a conversation she had with her father 58:06 about a delivery on the day of the murder. 58:09 He told me that he had brought a package 58:12 to Kirby on Wednesday. He said that he, you know, had left it there and gone, that, you 58:18 know, Kirby was not there, that he didn't have any interaction with him. 58:23 And what did the package contain? 58:25 I don't know what the package contained. 58:27 What did he say they contained? 58:28 Pills. 58:30 Narcotics. 58:30 Yes, sir. 58:31 Illegal drugs. 58:32 Yes, sir. 58:32 Did he say he was supplying Kirby with illegal drugs? 58:35 He said that Kirby and him had made the deal that Kirby wanted to make some quick 58:40 money. Dad knew of a source in Virginia. Kirby and Jeff dealing drugs? That was news. 58:48 And so was the timing of the deal. Jeff's alibi was that he was home in Virginia that day, 58:53 not Mississippi. She said her dad then told her Kirby's killer was probably someone who went to 58:58 the house to buy the drugs. Only, she wasn't buying it. Did you later have a conversation 59:04 with your father, where you pressed him on what happened, and where you pressed him on 59:10 the weather. He had killed Kirby. Yes. All right, tell the officers about that 59:16 please. She told the officers what she told us. It had been about six months 59:21 after Kirby had died and I was starting to just piece together bits and pieces 59:28 and I had questions for my father. I asked to take a walk and have a 59:34 discussion and he immediately got very aggressive with me and just kept shutting 59:42 me down. He told me that he had done you know what he had to do and that I was to 59:49 not look a gift horse in the mouth and that the investigators you know would 59:56 find out you know who killed Kirby and that was not my job. My job was to make 60:02 sure Enola was loved and cared for, and that I was to keep my nose out of it. 60:09 How did you take this? 60:10 What is he trying to tell you, do you think? 60:15 I mean, it made me, I believed he was confessing to killing Kirby. 60:23 So you're reading between the lines that my dad, it appears, has killed Kirby? 60:30 Yeah, it's it's not the lines I wanted to be reading but that's that's what our 60:36 conversation opened up those thoughts and the possibility that I mean I I shut 60:44 down and I went to my grandma's I didn't know what to do with it. 60:49 Were you scared? 60:51 It was just broken like I know I wasn't scared of him he's my dad I 61:02 I didn't want to believe it. 61:04 I didn't want it to be true. 61:07 Did you know that Kirby was going to be murdered? 61:11 No, I did not. 61:12 Were you involved in the play? 61:13 No, I was not. 61:14 Did you think your mom was involved as well? 61:16 No, I did not. 61:17 And even after our conversation, I didn't want to believe it. 61:23 I rationalized that I was misreading what he said. 61:29 But now after sitting in jail for nearly a year and a half she was in front of 61:33 investigators turning on her dad. He said he did what he had to do. He said for 61:38 you not to look a gift or in the mouth. Yes. Why did you not take this 61:43 information to law enforcement sooner? Because I didn't because I didn't want to 61:49 lose my daughter. I didn't want to be taken from my daughter. I don't want 61:53 to cause harm to my father. I didn't want to be the one who was responsible. I had faith 62:03 that law enforcement would solve it, and I did not. I did not. I didn't step up. I shut 62:12 down. 62:14 Caitlin had given police her version of what happened. Now, with the murder trials approaching, 62:19 The question was, would anyone believe her? 62:23 You feel like Caitlyn is not telling the whole truth. 62:24 No, she's not. 62:29 Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? 62:35 Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. 62:38 You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. 62:44 No new tools, no extra logins. 62:46 Just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. 62:51 make work less work, try Google Workspace with Gemini 62:55 at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. 62:59 Monday on NBC, the new season of The Voice has arrived. 63:04 I'm so excited. 63:06 Fan favorites Adam Levine and Kelly Clarkson are back 63:09 to take on two new powerhouses, 63:11 the legendary Queen Latifah. 63:13 The Queen is in the house. 63:15 And country superstar Riley Greene. 63:17 Riley is super charming. 63:18 He is a whole vibe. 63:20 Can we put that on my chair? 63:21 It's gonna be a wild ride. 63:23 The blind auditions continue on The Voice this Monday on NBC. 63:39 Caitlin Spence had turned on her father, Jeff, 63:41 telling police he had essentially confessed to killing Kirby. 63:45 Now, prosecutor Ben Creekmore's office was offering her a chance to get out of jail. 63:50 Explain what the deal was going to be, what she had to do to get it. 63:54 She would have to testify truthfully against her father, 63:57 and she would have to enter a plea of guilty to accessory after the fact capital murder and if she did that 64:04 What would she get in return? 64:07 probation 64:08 Caitlin's attorney Tony Faris. How did you get the 64:12 Prosecutor to agree to what some see as a very light punishment? 64:17 Well, every case is different in my opinion the state of Mississippi needed 64:23 Caitlin's testimony to convict Jeffrey Spence and as the evidence showed there 64:29 was no proof that Caitlin was involved in the killing of Kirby. 64:34 Maddie Jane thought Caitlin's deal sounded like a get-out-of-jail-free card. 64:38 You feel like Caitlin is not telling the whole truth. 64:40 No, she's not. 64:40 You think she's leaving out parts that would implicate her? 64:43 Yes, very much so. 64:45 We didn't believe the story that she did not know until months after the fact. 64:53 We felt like there were too many red flags 64:55 that showed us otherwise. 64:57 From the beginning, they couldn't understand 64:59 Katelyn's story about finding the body. 65:01 How Kirby could have been dead on the property 65:03 for almost two days without her noticing. 65:06 In fact, even the prosecutor agrees, 65:08 Katelyn may know more about the murder than she's saying. 65:11 What do you say to anyone who says, 65:13 wow, that is a sweetheart deal for Katelyn, 65:17 getting probation if you believe she's involved? 65:20 I would agree, but practically, you know, on a circumstantial evidence case, knowing 65:26 that she wasn't there, that she didn't pull the trigger, it's not perfect justice. 65:32 You know, we just, we do what we think is best at the time. 65:37 Even with Caitlyn's testimony, prosecutors faced an uphill battle when Jeff Spence's 65:42 trial began in September 2025. 65:45 You didn't have the camera footage. 65:46 You didn't have a full confession from Jeff Spence to Caitlin. 65:51 You didn't have any hard proof placing him at Kirby's house with the shotgun. 65:58 This is very circumstantial. 66:01 Did you worry that the jury would have a hard time with all those missing pieces? 66:06 Yes. As far as the circumstantial evidence case goes, 66:10 probably the biggest mountain we'd ever have to climb. 66:14 So they told the jury what they did have. 66:17 I'm Brad Johnson. 66:18 Surgeon Brad Johnson, one of several Virginia police investigators who helped with the case, 66:23 took the stand. 66:24 He testified that when Jeff was arrested, he was found with several keys. 66:28 So there was keys to small envelopes that appeared to be two safe deposit boxes and 66:34 then also to an A1 storage unit. 66:39 Investigators searched the boxes in storage unit. 66:41 They found silver coins, bars of gold, a check Kirby had written, and receipts from his bank accounts. 66:48 Those are the types of items that Kirby would normally carry in the bag that he carried with him all the time. 66:57 So whoever had those items had that bag. 67:02 Whoever had that bag was the one that shot and killed Kirby Carpenter. 67:06 Virginia investigators also found this shotgun wrapped in a coat under Jeff and 67:11 Karen's bed. There were no shell casings at Kirby's crime scene to make a 67:15 ballistics match, but still. It had buckshot in it consistent with the type 67:21 of shot that was used to kill Kirby Carpenter. This could be your murder 67:26 weapon. Could be a murder weapon. So that that was a really critical piece 67:30 evidence. I'm Carolyn Iwaya, Jeff Spence's daughter. Carolyn took the stand for the 67:37 prosecution and faced her father for the first time in six years. What was that 67:42 like? It's terrifying in a sense. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I 67:47 would see that anger in his eyes again. I didn't know if he would try and 67:50 intimidate me while I was up there. Did you make eye contact? I did several 67:55 times he would not look at me. When he cut the camera cord we called the 67:59 Because at that point, I had tried to reason with him. 68:04 Gio had tried to reason with him. 68:06 Carolyn told the jury how she and Gio felt terrorized by her dad. 68:10 And then she recounted something he once said about murder. 68:13 We were watching a movie and he said, you know, 68:15 oh, well, if I was ever going to have to kill someone, 68:18 I'd use a shotgun. 68:20 And that's because you wouldn't have to worry about the case. 68:23 Specifically, did he say anything about the shotgun shells? 68:28 Do you recall? 68:29 Yes. 68:30 A shotgun shell is huge. 68:31 I'm sure most of you know that. 68:33 You're not going to be looking around for little bullet casing. 68:37 But the prosecution's star witness was Caitlin. 68:40 What's that like being a cross from your dad? 68:43 Awful. 68:44 And you are testifying against him this man that you had this wonderful relationship 68:49 with at one time. 68:50 It's awful. 68:51 It's awful to be put in that situation. 68:56 Did you see your sister during the trial? 69:00 I saw her come into the courthouse, 69:02 and of course I want to go give her a hug, 69:05 and then you're slapped in the face with the reality of why you're in that building. 69:09 And so it was really just heartbreaking. 69:12 In a measured voice, 69:13 Caitlin testified about that conversation with her dad. 69:16 I asked him if he had anything to do with Kirby's death. 69:21 He said that it wasn't my job to find, 69:25 you know who Kirby's killer was. He said that I shouldn't let a gift horse in the mouth. 69:32 How did you take this conversation with respect to Kirby's death? 69:39 That he was confessing to me that he had killed Kirby. 69:43 Then it was the defense's turn and Jeff's attorney wasted no time hammering at Caitlin's credibility. 69:48 You have to deliver what they need. They being the state of Mississippi. 69:55 No, sir. I'm to testify truthfully to the facts that I know of. 70:00 I'm not delivering for anyone. 70:02 The truthful facts that you know of weren't reported to anybody for 17 months. 70:08 Am I right about that? 70:09 I gave statements to the police as I knew. 70:14 The defense attacked Kirby, too. 70:16 They hit people coming to the place where you live selling drugs. 70:21 We had people coming to the house for a number of things. 70:26 Was there any evidence to suggest that Kirby might have been involved in drug dealing with all the cash? 70:32 No, it was not. 70:35 I was the narcotics investigator for years for the county and I actually used to work for the state narcotics 70:41 and I never heard his name. 70:44 Defense Attorney David Hill said one thing was clear. 70:47 There was nothing to link Jeff's shotgun to the crime. 70:49 There's no evidence at all, in that time, in the Mississippi, the scene. 70:55 How many people in the shot? 70:58 I want five. 71:00 And still no evidence that Jeff was even in Mississippi when Kirby was killed. 71:04 What's the proof? 71:07 Don't have proof, he was there exactly. 71:09 There's a lot about this case that you don't know. 71:12 Correct. 71:14 In his closing argument, Defense Attorney Hill said there was proof Jeff was in Virginia. 71:18 A text Karen sent to Katelyn the night Kirby was killed. 71:23 She wrote that she and Jeff were about to eat hamburgers and that Jeff had been working 71:26 at home that day. 71:28 It tells you that Karen and Jeff, on November the 30th, are out to happen in the room pool. 71:39 Prosecutor Creekmore turned that text on its head in his closings, telling the jury 71:44 it was more likely Karen helping Jeff fake an alibi, and he said there was more 71:49 to that text, a line at the end that he believed was a coded message. 71:54 The hand dogs are back on the porch now. 71:58 That means the hunt is over. 72:01 The hunt is over. 72:02 If you're a coon hunter, squirrel hunter, using dogs, deer hunter, and you say the 72:07 hands are on the porch, that means the hunt is over. 72:10 And in this case... 72:12 In the kill, in this case, was Kirby Carpenter. 72:15 After three days of testimony, it was time for the jurors to decide Jeff Spence's fate. 72:21 They never heard from Jeff, but we did. 72:24 Jeff, did you kill Kirby Carpenter? 72:27 Ma'am. 72:42 Jeff Spence did not testify during his murder trial, but he did agree to talk to me on the phone from behind bars. 72:49 Jeff, did you kill Kirby Carpenter? 72:52 Ma'am. 72:55 Kirby's family says that you are a cold-blooded killer, and you did this out of greed. 73:06 If you say you didn't kill Kirby, who do you think killed Kirby? 73:17 Why Jeff would your own daughter make a deal to turn on you or to go against you, you know, 73:23 if you hadn't done this? 73:44 If you're innocent, don't you feel betrayed by Caitlyn? 73:47 In a way, of course. 73:56 It sounds like you kind of understand, but still, it must hurt. 74:01 Okay. 74:02 Well, of course. 74:03 Jeff doesn't deny that conversation with Caitlyn, the one she says amounted to a murder confession. 74:08 But he says she misconstrued what he meant. 74:11 One thing I would love to know is what did you mean when you said to Caitlyn, don't 74:15 look a gift horse in the mouth? 74:17 What I meant to police. 74:28 There was a text on the family group chat that said 74:48 the hounds are on the porch. 74:51 The investigators believed that the hunt is over, the murder has been carried out. 75:18 Your daughter, Carolyn, and your son-in-law had some really awful things to say about 75:24 you. 75:24 They were terrified of you. 75:26 Your son-in-law said that he feels lucky that you didn't kill him. 75:41 He said you suggested that he take out life insurance and that you would be the recipient. 75:59 So who was telling the truth? 76:01 Jeff or his daughters, Caitlin and Carolyn? 76:04 Four and a half hours into deliberations, the jury foreman sent the judge a note. 76:08 They were deadlocked six to six. 76:11 He doesn't need to show us the declared mistrial. 76:14 Y'all consult the calendars about when you may want to whip and then you want to retry 76:18 this case. 76:21 I end up hyperventilating and I pass out. 76:26 You literally faint. 76:28 Yes, passed out completely. 76:30 Over this deadlocked jury. 76:32 Yes, because I'm thinking, hey, he's going to get away with this. 76:37 My first thoughts immediately went to what happens now. 76:41 No, I was not prepared for a mistrial. 76:46 Katelyn's deal to testify failed to deliver prosecutors a conviction, but that didn't 76:50 stop them from going after her dad again. 76:53 Was it an easy decision to say we're doing trial number two? 76:57 Oh yeah, absolutely, and my next thoughts were for the family. 77:02 And just to let them know, hey, we're not going anywhere, this ain't over, we're ready 77:08 to fight again. 77:08 Prosecutor tells you, we're going again. 77:11 Yep. 77:12 I said, well, you better, you better step your game up. 77:16 Miss Maddie Jane, Kirby's mom said that she told you, 77:20 you better step up your game. 77:23 I think she said that more than once. 77:26 All rise. 77:27 Jeff Spence's second trial began in March, 2026. 77:30 Carolyn again faced the father she lived in fear of. 77:33 Was there anything about his demeanor 77:36 that was significant to you? 77:37 At that point, there was blood in his eyes. 77:40 I knew that we were done, like done, done. 77:43 I'd never seen him quite to that level before. 77:47 And Caitlin told her story again. 77:49 You entered a plea of guilty to accessory after the fact. 77:54 Yes, for the knowledge that I had 77:56 after my conversation with my father. 78:00 In the months between the trials, 78:02 prosecutors had stepped up their game. 78:05 With the help of Virginia investigators, 78:06 they found a new witness with an incredible story. 78:10 Tracy, tell the jury who you are. 78:12 Tracy Delp, a friend of Jeff Spence. 78:14 Tracy Delp helped Jeff with odd jobs, including fixing up old cars. 78:19 And you would work on them for him, and he would pay you? 78:23 Yes. 78:23 He testified that Jeff made it clear he was no fan of Kirby's 78:27 and tried to hire him for a different kind of job. 78:30 Mr. Spence ever talked to you about doing anything about the way he felt about Kirby? 78:38 Yeah. What did he say? 78:41 That's right. He wanted him killed. 78:43 All right. Did he ever ask you to do it for him? 78:48 Yes, sir. He asked me to find somebody to go with me to do it. 78:52 All right. And did he offer to pay you money? 78:56 Yes, sir. 78:56 Do you remember how much? 78:57 I think he said five grand to split with someone. 79:01 Okay. Did you agree to do it? 79:03 No, I'm sure. 79:04 He testified they spoke again after the murder. 79:07 What did he tell you? 79:08 He said he shot him in the face with a pistol. 79:11 In a pistol? 79:11 No. 79:13 Tracy Delp's testimony wasn't the prosecution's only new evidence this time around. 79:21 Investigator McAllister testified that he'd taken another look at security video 79:25 from the Virginia home Jeff and Karen lived in when Kirby was murdered. 79:28 It showed Jeff had several cars parked in his backyard. 79:32 It had tag numbers of vehicles and things like that on there. 79:36 So you're trying to think maybe Jeff Spence took a different vehicle? 79:42 Yes, yes. 79:43 To Mississippi? 79:44 Yes. 79:45 McAllister had the plates run through tag readers across the country. 79:49 There was a hit. 79:50 One of Jeff's vehicles, a maroon van in Tennessee, 79:54 heading south toward Mississippi. 79:56 What date? 79:56 On the 30th, the day Kirby was killed. 80:00 Day Kirby was killed? This is your gotcha moment. 80:04 Let's see it. 80:05 You've got a van coming southbound, 8.30 in the morning, on November the 30th, with his hat on it. 80:15 The prosecution's smoking gun. Or was it? 80:18 Law enforcement has found new evidence. How do you get around that? 80:33 Everybody in this courtroom knows it. 80:35 The prosecution had upped its game. 80:38 Now it was time to see what the defense would do. 80:41 There's no proof whatsoever that Jeff was even in Mississippi when Kirby was killed. 80:46 Jeff Spence had new attorneys, Claybourne Ferguson and John McNeil. 80:50 Law enforcement has found new evidence. 80:53 They have identified the license plate of one of Jeff's vehicles. 80:59 And when he's supposed to be in Virginia, that car is traveling, they say, toward Mississippi. 81:05 right how do you get around that well the first thing about that van is that 81:11 license plate hits about 450 miles away from Kirby and Caitlyn's house and 81:18 there's not a single other hit on that van traveling that direction for 450 81:25 miles do you have proof that Jeff was closer than 450 miles away from tippa 81:32 County, the day Kirby Carpenter was murdered. 81:35 No direct proof. 81:37 No direct proof. 81:38 Might it be possible that Jeff was going to tend to some of his beehives in North Tennessee?
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