Pete Wehner on Pope Leo, Trump, and Protestant America

How Are Protestants Navigating a Moral and Spiritual Vacuum in Evangelicalism?

Host Curtis Chang talks with former White House staffer and Atlantic columnist Pete Wehner about why Pope Leo XIV is resonating with Protestants and evangelicals despite historic theological divides. Together, they explore the Pope's moral leadership while contrasting his dignified, intellectually grounded public witness with Donald Trump's increasingly erratic influence on evangelical political culture. The conversation examines a perceived spiritual leadership vacuum within Protestantism and calls pastors, congregations, and followers of Jesus to cultivate beauty, goodness, and truth as a long-term path toward renewing Christian public witness.

00:34 - Introduction to Pope Leo XIV's Influence

02:29 - Is There a Protestant Appreciation for Catholicism?

03:59 - What Is This Pope's Impact on Public Theology?

06:06 - Papal Influence in Past Administrations

11:19 - The Collapse of Evangelical Public Theology

14:18 - Can Protestants Still Exert Moral Influence?

21:16 - The "Mad King" and Trump's Cognitive Decline

28:42 - What Can Pastors Do?

32:00 - The Importance of Beauty, Goodness, and Truth

37:08 - What Is The Pope's Transcendent Influence?

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Referenced in the Episode:

• Pete Wehner's article "The American Pope vs. the American President"
• Pete Wehner's article "The Apotheosis of Donald Trump"
• Pope Leo XIV's Encyclical Letter: Magnifica Humanitas
• The Madness of King George (YouTube free with ads)
• David Bentley Hart's The Beauty of the Infinite
• Wordsworth's The Prelude, Book 14
• Good Faith's course: The After Party

Scriptures Referenced:

• 1 Timothy 3 (ESV)
• Titus 1 (ESV)

Protestant and Catholic Leaders Referenced:

• Pope John Paul II
• Pope Benedict XVI
• Pope Francis
• Reinhold Niebuhr
• C.S. Lewis
• Billy Graham
• Dietrich Bonhoeffer
• John Stott
• Karl Barth
• Oliver O'Donovan
• Rowan Williams
• Dr. T