Show full transcript 0:39 By May 2017, Heather was planning to leave her husband for another man 0:43 after what she alleged was years of abuse. 0:47 She was encouraged by a judge at the courthouse 0:49 where she worked to get a protective order, 0:51 but she didn't think that was necessary. 0:53 She said that she and her husband, Andy, weren't sleeping in the same bed anymore, and she was going to get out soon. 1:00 In fact, on Tuesday, May 2, Heather told a co-worker that she was going to leave Andy that weekend. 1:07 On Wednesday, May 3, she and the man that she was having an affair with allegedly made plans to resign from their jobs the next day so they could be together. 1:16 But Heather never made it to work the next day to do that. 1:20 Because that morning, Thursday, May 4th, Heather was found naked on her bathroom floor with 1:26 a single gunshot wound to the head. 1:29 It was her husband who called 911. 1:32 He told responding deputies that he never saw this coming, that the whole evening from 1:37 after dinner till the wee hours of the morning, he and Heather were getting intimate. 1:42 Then he fell asleep, and the next thing he knew, he woke up to the sound of a gunshot. 1:47 The ME determined Heather died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, but they left the manner of 1:53 death as undetermined, pending further investigation. 1:56 But that investigation just kind of puttered out with no real conclusion, which left Heather's 2:02 loved ones feeling like they were going to have to be the ones to fight for justice. 2:07 That fight caught the attention of a TV show that put Heather's case on a national 2:12 stage in 2022. 2:14 That's when all of the rumors and speculation that had been swirling locally in that Justice 2:20 for Heather Turner Facebook group got laid bare alongside all of the evidence that Heather's 2:26 friends and family were having trouble reconciling with. 2:30 The stuff that I haven't even told you about yet. 2:34 And the show had a surprise source who, from the shadows, came forward to say that they 2:41 saw something on Heather's body and just before her funeral that has them very concerned that 2:49 the truth is being covered up. This is part two of Heather Turner's story. 3:27 Britt, before I get into 3:28 what this source from the documentaries said that they saw and witnessed, I want to rung you 3:33 through kind of the culmination of all of the pieces of evidence that people close to this case 3:38 had been picking a part in the years leading up to 2022 and what theories this led them to. 3:46 So let's talk about the physical evidence in the bathroom where Heather died. 3:51 One central question that has plagued many people who have looked at this case is, 3:57 was Heather taking about to take or finishing a shower when she died? 4:02 Yeah. 4:03 So when deputies arrived, remember there was steam coming from the bathroom still. In the 911 call, 4:08 There is a moment where Andy specifically tells Dispatch that he's gonna turn off the shower so that he can hear them better 4:14 We know Heather is found naked with what the coroner said in her report look like wet hair and 4:19 Based on the blood spatter pattern and the voice it looked like she was wearing a towel around her when she was shot 4:26 So those who argue that Heather did not take her own life say that this makes no sense 4:31 Like she steps out of the shower water still like running and then grabs the gun and pulls the trigger like that 4:38 feels off, right? Like, even just the fact that she was naked, if I have any say in how I go, 4:44 I don't want a bunch of people finding me naked. And listen, I had to check myself a little bit. 4:48 I was like, you know, maybe this is a you thing, Bill. Like, so I actually looked it up. And 4:53 there was a study published in 2021 titled Homicide or Suicide, How Nudity Factors 4:59 Into This Determination. And after studying almost 120,000 deaths, it said that results 5:07 Let's indicate that a female victim being found nude 5:09 is a strong indicator of homicide. 5:13 Now, of course, not an impossibility. 5:15 But it is rare. 5:16 Exactly. 5:18 Now, according to what Andy said, 5:20 she was getting ready for work, 5:21 so maybe she was gonna need to shower 5:23 after that marathon husband and wife time 5:26 that they were having. 5:27 Okay, but let's play that out for a second. 5:29 First of all, I mean, forget everything we know 5:31 about time leading up to her death, 5:33 which would lead us to believe, 5:34 she was at least telling people 5:36 She was sleeping in another room. Yeah want to touch Andy with like a 10-foot pole. Yeah 5:41 Say tonight everything's good again. They have this like 5:45 All night husband and wife time. Yeah, this marriage sex with on I'm the same marriage the sex of on whatever it was 5:50 Then what flips and makes her want to take her own life and when does that right? 5:56 If everything is good 5:57 This is something that bothers me because according to Andy in the investigative records 6:02 Heather kept her gun in her purse in her car so did she go out and get it that 6:09 morning while Andy was sleeping after he's saying they were having a great 6:12 time did she go before like should the shower or before she was even like came 6:18 in the room that night like that did she have it waiting for herself like in the 6:23 bathroom like planted there earlier but that would make this more planned 6:27 then spur of the moment but again everything about stepping out of the shower towel wrapped around you the water still 6:35 Running and a no with just five words gives off spur of the moment vibes 6:40 Which makes no sense with what we know about her night unless what we know about her night is a lie 6:48 well, that would change things yeah, and 6:50 This is another huge sticking point for people. Honestly. This is the biggest hurdle for me 6:58 everything I've learned about Heather and how she felt about Andy and what her 7:03 plans were makes it so hard for me to understand her being in a place mentally 7:09 where she's consensually having sex with Andy from again after dinner to like 7:15 four or five in the morning like he claims to deputies. This all of this. 7:21 And remember that email I told you about in the first episode that Heather 7:24 sent to Rob, the guy she was seeing from work, the one she was planning to leave Andy for. 7:29 That was dated April 5th, so like a month before, and she's telling him, she's literally 7:34 sleeping at the kitchen table to avoid being in their bedroom where like she alleges Andy 7:40 had like locked her away. 7:42 She says Andy is like saying he'll bury her before he signs divorce papers. 7:47 So I'm not saying that she couldn't have gone back to him. 7:52 I mean, if she was in an abusive relationship like she was telling people going back is usually part of the cycle 7:58 But I'm sorry like help me get through the timeline 8:01 April 4th. She claims Andy locked her in her bedroom 8:04 April 5th. She wakes up at the kitchen table to avoid going into the room with him April 23rd 8:11 Andy searches does suicide void life insurance in the US and May 2nd 8:16 She told a co-worker she was gonna leave Andy May 3rd. She makes plans with Rob 8:21 They're gonna resign from their jobs eventually like be together literally in writing 8:25 She makes plans with him for that coming weekend, and then she goes home that night and according to Andy everything is fine 8:33 Everything's hunky-dory. They have consensual sex all night long, and then she just decides to take her own life out of nowhere 8:40 Make it make sense 8:43 But if she didn't pull the trigger 8:46 her, then you have to contend with the note. 8:49 That is another point that comes up. 8:53 The note is in Heather's handwriting, but Heather was a writer. 8:58 I mean, she wrote long notes to Andy when they first met. 9:01 She would write little notes and leave them around the house. 9:04 You can see some of them in the bathroom, like on the vanities. 9:08 She also wrote longer letters to Rob, even like her quick end of the day note the 9:13 night before she died to Rob was a page long. 9:15 So I'm sorry. I love you. Just does it make sense to me? 9:21 No, but maybe she wrote it at a different time. 9:24 So that is what some people suggest. 9:26 And we've seen that in other cases, right? 9:28 Like remember with Alyssa Tarny, her sister Sarah always believed 9:31 that the note supposedly left by Alyssa saying that she was running away 9:36 was actually from a different time. 9:39 I wanted to know more about the notebook that this note was found written in. 9:43 because when I look at the photos that the CSI unit took it's like this spiral bound notebook 9:48 and it's open to the page with the note on it. We asked the sheriff's office if there was 9:53 anything written on the pages before or after the note but they didn't have that information. 9:59 Do they still have the notebook? They do in evidence still but interestingly enough 10:04 in Andy's book he said that the note was written in his travel planner which is like 10:10 I've shown you the pic, that doesn't look like a- 10:12 I was gonna say, is his travel planner a spiral brown notebook then? 10:16 That is the same question I had, but as a reminder, we reached out to Andy about Heather 10:21 about all his relationships and he declined to participate in our coverage and said that 10:26 the sheriff's office has all the facts. 10:28 So again, we relied on his book for many of his statements. 10:32 So say Heather did exactly what they say. 10:36 She wrote the note, she crouched down and pulled the trigger. 10:39 The blood spatter on the closet door in the bathroom lines up with that. 10:44 But in the coroner's report, she noted that the wall by the toilet looked washed. 10:51 And I actually have a picture of it that I'm going to show you. 10:55 Okay, so this wall here. 10:57 Yeah, like where it's a little bit darker. 10:59 Yeah. 10:59 So the popular theory among skeptics is that maybe there was blood spatter on that wall 11:06 that was like wiped away because it would have told a different story. 11:10 But Andy says that this was just the start of like a painting project that they were doing. 11:15 And like in the layout of the bathroom, where, where like is this wall? 11:20 So like to orient myself in the room. 11:23 We didn't get a diagram of the bathroom, but we did get a ton of pictures of the crime scene. 11:26 So we made our own kind of mock-up of the layout. 11:29 When you walk in the door, like going from left to right, like in front of you, 11:33 you have the tub and then you have the shower and then the linen closet and then the toilet. 11:39 So Heather is found laying near the linen closet and the toilet. Linen closet is what has the 11:44 blood spatter on it and the wall with the window is beside the toilet. That's the one that looks 11:49 like wet or something. Yeah, it looks wet but like no visible blood. No, just the closet has 11:55 blood on it. So they say she was like crouched down when she pulled the trigger. 12:00 Now, another major point of contention, speaking of pulling the trigger, is which hand Heather 12:06 used to pull the trigger. 12:08 Now, reminder, the Emmy said that Heather's entry wound was on the left side. 12:13 Heather's family, notably not Andy, but Heather's family, says that Heather was 12:18 right-handed, so they don't understand why she would shoot herself on the left 12:23 side. 12:23 So her family says right-handed, does Andy say left-handed? 12:27 No, so Andy told the Sheriff's office that Heather was ambidextrous, but ambidextrous or not 12:33 Here's what's even more odd to me. Heather had blood spatter on both hands 12:38 Which made it look like she was gripping the gun with both hands, right? 12:45 Which like envision it they're saying the entrance wound is on her left side like below her ear 12:49 Okay, so she has like both hands 12:52 Yeah, like around the grip to like pull the trigger. It's uncomfortable to me. It's unnatural. Yeah, like so much of the case 12:58 It's not impossible. Like of course you can do it with two hands, but then like why? 13:02 exactly 13:04 well 13:05 Eric Eccles he is a PI who was hired by a woman named Mary Aldridge 13:11 Mary is the family's advocate who brought this case to us 13:14 so she hired this PI to help with Heather's case and 13:17 And he put forth a theory about why there could be blood spatter on two hands. 13:22 And I want to be extra clear that this is purely a hypothetical put forward by him. 13:28 But Eric says that the revolver's barrel and the grip are about the same width. 13:35 So he says maybe Heather was crouching down on the ground like in fear. 13:40 Maybe because a gun was pointed to her head and she used her left hand and then her 13:45 right hand over top of it to grab the barrel and then the gun still went off. 13:51 I mean if she wasn't holding it right up against her head that could explain why 13:56 there wasn't any like stippling. Right I mentioned that in our first episode that 14:00 the Emmy didn't know any kind of muzzle burns or stippling which was a huge 14:05 issue for people which brings me finally to the surprise source that 14:11 dropped some bombs in 2022 on national TV. This was the local funeral home director who, 14:18 by the way, knew Andy's family. But they were so concerned with what they saw that they got in 14:23 touch with Heather's family kind of early on in the investigation. And then they later went public 14:28 when the TV show It Couldn't Happen Here decided to feature this case. But they participated 14:34 under the condition that the TV show would hide their identity. And we spoke to this person 14:38 directly. We verified who they are, but they still asked not to be named because 14:43 of all the uncertainty surrounding this case. But here is what the funeral home 14:47 director had to say. When Heather came in, the director knew next to nothing. 14:53 Like funeral home directors don't get autopsy reports or investigative stuff. 14:56 They were basically told listen, you got a suicide, gunshot wound to the 14:59 head, we need to get her in good enough state for a viewing. Now, the 15:03 same day that Heather's body was sent to the funeral home, there was a 15:07 brought in who also died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. But the 15:12 director said that the two cases looked completely different. To be clear, this 15:17 director is not a forensic expert, but they say that they have worked on more 15:21 than a hundred cases similar to this and Heather's wounds just didn't make 15:27 sense to them. They say they saw a small pencil eraser sized hole on the 15:32 top right of her head, like around the temple, then a larger quarter size hole by her left 15:40 ear. These are the same two small wounds that the coroner noted in her report at the scene. 15:46 Now the director made note that there were no muzzle burns, that stippling or whatever I was 15:50 talking about, on either of the wounds. The teen did have that though. Now we did some 15:56 research and not all cases of suicide by firearm have this like stippling or 16:01 muzzle burn but the funeral home director told us that almost every other 16:05 case that they've worked like this had some form of stippling or muzzle burn. 16:11 Now based on the size of the wounds and the right side being the smaller of the 16:15 two the funeral home director assumed again without getting any 16:20 information just making assumptions assumed that the right side was the 16:23 entry wound and the left side was the exit wound. It wasn't until later that they 16:29 learned there was supposedly no exit wound and that the bullet was found still 16:33 lodged inside Heather's skull. So then what was that hole then? This is it like so 16:39 the ME, the Sheriff's Office, everyone is very clear that there is an entry 16:44 wound on the left and no exit wound and that wound defect whatever it is 16:52 Like on the top right that like the funeral home director seeing the corner is seeing 16:57 That's not even mentioned in the Emmys report. So officially it's like it didn't exist 17:03 And I spiraled about this like I wondered if maybe that whole could have been the result of the skull fractures that they talked about 17:10 But they don't say that specifically and like if it's a skull fracture from the inside and made a wound on the outside 17:15 You think that would be mentioned. Yeah 17:17 So then I thought okay maybe this wound was made by the Emmy to like extract the bullet from Heather's head at autopsy 17:24 But they don't say that either 17:27 And if that was the case then it wouldn't explain why the coroner says she saw it at the scene 17:33 Before Heather even is taken away for the autopsy. But what if it was caused by the skull fracture? 17:38 Well, this is what I'm saying like they don't mention 17:40 Elaceration or anything in the Emmy report that would be made from like the inside out 17:46 So like if it was there, if that's what it was and if something was there, why wouldn't you even document it? 17:51 Right. Now we talked to the coroner by the way. Her name is Lindsay Eberhardt Fuller and she made it clear 17:57 She is not going against the Emmy 18:00 She does remember seeing that wound on the scene, but she does not know what it was and she says if the Emmy is 18:08 Saying it wasn't there. She's not saying they're wrong 18:11 But the official 18:13 Spiral ruling stops nobody from talking about this case. 18:18 Honestly, this is probably the biggest debated piece of evidence in this case. 18:23 Hands down. 18:23 This like entry room, exit room, right, left, because people spiral saying that if there 18:28 was an entry room that was actually the top right of her head, then the trajectory would 18:33 have like a downward angle. 18:35 Like someone was standing over her. 18:37 It changes like everything about the face. 18:39 It feels like it makes suicide less likely. 18:41 But here's the thing of everything that gets argued in this case 18:43 This actually seems like the least compelling to me right because like no exit wound the bullets still in there 18:51 Right like I like I find this hard to argue with like I don't know what that like right-side wound or defect is 18:58 But if it was a bullet hole and we know the bullet is still in her 19:02 Then like there shouldn't have been an exit wound 19:04 But we know there is this large hole on the left like I do think that is the entry wound 19:09 So like the other one can't be an entry wound from her gun. 19:13 I mean, was there another gun that we haven't talked about yet? 19:16 No, I mean, and I don't even think that's ever been like speculated. 19:19 Like her gun is the gun that was used. 19:22 The left wound is the entry wound. 19:25 But still, even knowing that ruling, the funeral home director felt 19:30 like this wound on the top right has to mean something, whatever it is. 19:36 And that's because of what happened right before Heather's funeral. 19:42 They tell us it is typical for families to come in and view their loved one before everyone 19:48 else is allowed in. 19:49 And everyone reacts differently. 19:51 But what happened at Heather's was a first for this director. 19:55 They say that Andy and his dad Curtis Turner immediately walked up to Heather and started 20:02 like rifling through her hair. 20:04 It looks like to them that they were like looking for something and the director just kind of like stayed back with another funeral home employee 20:11 Giving them space and privacy 20:13 But what they're doing feels weird and while they're looking through Heather's hair 20:17 Curtis asked the director about some wax that was used to cover up one of the wounds and that's an odd question 20:23 whatever 20:25 What gives the director full-body chills is what they say happens next 20:30 Next, according to the investigative records, they hear Andy say, quote, Daddy, I thought 20:37 you took care of that. 20:39 And then Curtis goes, son, everything is all right, but took care of what? 20:47 The director had no idea. 20:50 Didn't ask. 20:51 So I have no idea. 20:53 But learning this just compounded public suspicion. 20:57 Yeah, because this is not the first time Dad has shown up in this investigation. 21:05 You see, I hadn't told you this before, but there is a moment in the 911 call that Andy 21:11 made that morning he found Heather, where Curtis gets on the phone to help direct deputies 21:17 to the house. 21:18 Wait, he was there? 21:20 Both of Andy's parents were. 21:21 Because he called them before he ever called 911. 21:30 With the holidays approaching, we all spend more time out of the house visiting family or running errands. 21:35 If you've been thinking about securing your home, there's no better time to protect it with SimpliSafe than right now. 21:39 Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, 21:43 SimpliSafe is built to stop threats before they start. 21:46 Smart, AI-powered cameras watch for potential intruders and alert live, US-based agents who can intervene in under 30 seconds. 21:52 speaking directly to the camera to stop intruders in their tracks, 21:55 and dispatch emergency help when it's needed most. 21:58 We just got back from a little fall break trip, 22:00 and as always, we felt so safe and secure, 22:02 knowing that our home was protected by SimplySafe while we were out of town. 22:05 We were even able to disarm the system via the app 22:06 for our neighbor who was dropping off our mail for us, 22:08 then arm everything again when they were done. 22:10 Trudder than a name, SimplySafe makes it so simple. 22:13 I've partnered with SimplySafe to offer my listeners 22:15 their biggest savings of the year. 22:17 They're offering 70% off your new system with professional monitoring 22:20 when you visit simplysafe.com slash crimejunkie. That's simplysafe.com slash crimejunkie. 22:25 And when you order, write in crimejunkie at checkout. It tells them we sent you, 22:28 and it really helps the show. Simply safe, ahead of crime in real time. 22:35 Before Andy called 911, he called his mom Pam four times. Andy's call logs look like this. 22:44 So at 5.57, there is a less than three second call. 5.57 again, less than three second call. 22:51 558, less than three second call, 559, he makes a 14 second call, and then at 559, he calls 911. 23:01 Now what this looks like to me is Andy, like calling, getting voicemail, calling, 23:04 getting voicemail, calling, getting voicemail, then she picks up. Now there may have been a 23:09 legitimate reason for him to reach out to them first. According to Andy's book, he says that 23:12 he called his mom because he knew that she would be up and getting ready for work. And 23:16 Andy just told her like he needed someone to come be with their daughter because Heather 23:20 shot herself. Which is what she and Andy's father did. They got there shortly before first responders 23:27 arrived while Andy was still on the phone with dispatch. Now nothing about this timeline actually 23:32 looks off to me. He got a hold of mom at 5.59. They lived about 10 minutes away and you can hear 23:38 them arrive while Andy is still on the phone with 911 dispatchers at 6.11 a.m. And I'm gonna 23:44 play you a short clip so you can hear for yourself Curtis like taking over for Andy and 23:49 talking to Dispatch. 24:09 Now, despite what we are led to believe in true crime documentaries, the current 24:14 Paulding County Sheriff says it's not uncommon for somebody to call a loved 24:18 one before dialing 911. And listen, before I even keep going, I want to make 24:24 something really, really clear. Curtis has never been implicated in any kind of cover-up or involvement 24:31 in Heather's case. But I do want you to understand the rumors that were going around, even if they 24:38 were unsubstantiated, because it all plays into how this case has become so big for the community. 24:45 So knowing that Andy's dad Curtis was showing up, this weird thing with like the funeral home 24:50 director. People began to wonder if dad was called that day to take care of something or to just 24:58 be around. Because by the way, Curtis, I think I told you this, he was a traveling pastor and 25:03 this like rumor starts going around that at one point he may have been the pastor of the sheriff 25:10 whose department was originally in charge of this case. However, nobody can nail down when that 25:17 was. And they don't think it was at the time of Heather's death. Plus, despite the rumors, 25:23 the sheriff at the time was never actually on the scene, which is like something I think is 25:27 worth mentioning. Yeah, but I assume they're thinking is like he might have like sway or 25:31 something like influence with the department. Yeah, I think the advocates for Heather worry 25:36 about what influence he had exactly. Because remember, there were odd things done, like the 25:42 the fact that Andy's hands got washed 25:44 before the GSR tests were done on him 25:47 according to deputy's reports. 25:49 And I mentioned briefly last episode 25:51 that Andy had changed his clothes too, 25:53 but deputies didn't collect those 25:54 or at least didn't collect his shirt. 25:57 And like what significance do they think that has? 26:00 I think it just highlights 26:01 like more of a sloppy investigation. 26:03 Like wouldn't you want the clothes that he was wearing 26:05 to see if the blood patterns match up 26:06 to what he says was happening 26:07 or what he says he did? 26:09 Like he's holding her when deputies arrive, 26:11 He says he did CPR on her. I feel like they should have at least like been looked at. I don't know 26:16 But listen, there is one other part about like Andy's parents being there that morning that people really hone in on and it's another 26:23 Part of the 9-1-1 call 26:25 Some people say that Andy says on the call 26:30 Mama I 26:31 Did it? 26:33 Yeah, that feels really relevant. It would if it were black and white 26:39 but the part that they're talking about, it's hard to hear, so it's not super definitive, 26:45 like, it's more up for interpretation, and we actually got the 911 audio in our, like, foyer 26:50 request. I hear him say, mama, the rest is hard for me to make out. Okay, can you just, 26:57 like, I need to hear it now. Uh, yeah, I'll play it for you. 27:36 Okay, this is gonna sound kind of bonkers. 27:40 is I don't hear, to be clear, I don't hear anything 27:44 after Mama for the first time. 27:45 I didn't hear, I did it, I could kind of hear, 27:51 I killed her, maybe. 27:55 Yeah, where it's connected to Mama, 27:56 everyone says Mama, I did it. 27:58 And so like when I hear, I don't hear that at all. 28:01 I kind of see what you just pointed out. 28:04 I mean, it's garbled, it's messy, but like I see. 28:06 Wait, hang on, let me just play it again. 28:07 Yeah. 28:09 Sandy, Sandy, take a deep breath, okay? 28:12 You still want to keep doing compressions. 28:21 Right. There. Okay. 28:23 But like, yeah, so the rumors are like he's saying, I did it or I killed her. 28:28 I don't know what that is. 28:29 It is so hard for me to hear. 28:31 And to me, it's a little bit of the confirmation bias. 28:33 Like, would I have picked that up if I hadn't read the Facebook comments? 28:37 Right. 28:38 If I hadn't told you, like, hey, this is what they like. 28:40 Or there's something here to hear, right? 28:42 Yeah. I mean, I would love to know what other people think. 28:44 Like what do they hear in this call to me? 28:46 This call is so central to people's theory and to what was happening that morning. 28:50 But I, I don't know. 28:52 I just know that the people who are saying that they believe Heather didn't take her life 28:56 really believe that there is a confession on that call. 29:00 So knowing all of this now, now that you know their relationship histories 29:04 from episode one, you know that Heather is telling everyone 29:07 she's planning to leave Andy that weekend. 29:10 And then you get all of these other little things that like the call on there on they don't prove anything right 29:17 But like together all lined up in a row you can see why somebody who loved Heather might feel 29:23 Like they have to question everything. Yeah, so that is what they had been sitting with for years 29:30 but now 29:32 This is when 2022 is when the public gets a really good look at 29:36 everything when it's featured on this show and I have to imagine that things 29:41 got a lot worse for Andy who was trying to move on so I don't know if this TV 29:47 show and this public airing of the case is what sparked this or if he already had 29:53 it in the works but the next year 2023 is when Andy releases his book that I 29:59 have been referencing last episode and this episode it's called Who Turned Up 30:04 the silence. And the book isn't just about like Heather's death, it's more of like a memoir and 30:09 reflects on his entire life. Obviously Heather's life, death, their marriage, the investigation 30:14 that followed, it's a huge part of it. And this was clearly his attempt to take back the narrative. 30:21 The ME had all but ruled his wife's death as suicide. It was her DNA on the trigger, 30:27 her hands that tested positive for GSR, her gun, her handwriting on a goodbye note. 30:32 So he wanted to move on with his life. 30:34 This was going to be his definitive stance on the case, but the problem I have is that 30:42 there are parts of this book where Andy just completely rewrites history. 30:49 Take for instance the GSR testing that they did on Andy to prove that he hadn't handled 30:55 the gun. 30:55 I told you in part one that Andy wrote about investigators doing a GSR test on 31:01 him before his hands got washed and he says that they were immediately negative 31:07 results like at the scene they got negative results. And is that in the 31:10 records? No. It shows that they tested his hands after EMTs washed them and the 31:18 results that we have in the file say that the lab didn't even receive the 31:21 samples for like 13 months. But we can agree on the end they did come back negative. Now 31:29 he also wrote in his book that he was doing CPR, breathing two breaths and doing 25 compressions 31:36 and like blood was hitting his face and eyes like in his mouth. Problem is responding EMTs told the 31:44 GBI years later in 2019 that they don't recall seeing any blood on his face when they arrived. 31:51 So it's stuff like that that makes me pause and stuff like that. 31:57 That would make it like really nice to have his clothes to help out with this one. 32:01 Yeah, just support a narrative. 32:04 Yeah. And of course, the way he talks about his relationship with Heather feels 32:10 inconsistent with everything that we have heard or read about in the investigative files. 32:16 Like with the facts of this case, like if you want to be super kind to Andy 32:20 and give him a pass, like, say he's going off his memory, he probably didn't have the 32:24 reports in front of him, trauma does wonky stuff to the memory, this is years later, 32:28 you can do that. 32:30 But I don't understand the picture he paints of his marriage to Heather, and everything 32:35 that led up to the night that she died. 32:38 There's a specific passage near the end of his book that I want to read, it says, 32:44 quote, 32:44 quote. Never was there a complaint, a report, a bruise, or an allegation until she died 32:51 of her own volition. Then, from the boyfriends and family, this comes out to slander and hurt 32:58 our family, and for six years they have thought this is acceptable behavior. Heather did not 33:03 care for them. She lied to all of them, just as she did our family. She was never 33:07 leaving her home, kids, security, and husband. 33:12 And that comes after the part in his book that he says he had no idea that Heather was 33:18 allegedly having an affair. 33:20 Actually, now he says that he found out after her death that she was having multiple affairs 33:26 while he was nothing but faithful to her. 33:29 Except, like I said in episode one, we know from Deputy's report- 33:32 He was saying it, like, at the scene. 33:34 At the scene. 33:35 He's at least telling them about the affair she was having with the guy at work and he's saying this at the scene, right? 33:41 It's like basically one of three reasons that he can come up with for why she would have just taken her own life out of nowhere 33:48 Yeah, and there is something that feels so frustrating 33:52 Like when you're reading this book because even if there are like things that let line up like they're talking about the same thing 33:59 Sometimes all I have now is like Andy's account. There is no other side to it 34:03 Like for example, we know that Heather was saying 34:06 that their marriage was forged. 34:08 In his book, he talks about that too. 34:10 It seems like they agree kind of about what happened, 34:13 except he is putting all of the blame on Heather for that. 34:18 Which might be true, but this goes back 34:21 to what I said at the very top of episode one. 34:24 If two people are in a room and one of them dies, 34:28 can you ever really know the full truth? 34:32 This is part of the reason that we wanted to do this episode. 34:37 And I think this is a lot of what people are fighting for just to make sure that there is a record of both sides of this case. 34:46 Because right now it feels like Andy's book is the, like one of the only easily accessible sides that is out there. 34:55 Though, I'm not really sure the impact that this book had on the community, because half 35:01 of the people we interviewed for this episode hadn't even read it, and I don't think anyone 35:06 advocating for Heather stopped because he wrote it. 35:10 In fact, they may have been pushing even harder, because the following year, Heather's case 35:16 gained enough attention that when Ashley Henson runs for sheriff, providing closure 35:21 to Heather's case becomes a major part of his election campaign, and he ends up winning. 35:28 So he has to put his money where his mouth is. 35:32 Our reporter spoke with Sheriff Henson, and he said that when he got into office, he looked 35:37 at what the previous administration's cold case team found. 35:41 And then he reviewed the case himself with the help of the GBI. 35:46 The GBI, the ones who said she died by suicide in the first place. 35:49 Well, their ME said that it was consistent with self-infliction, but the GBI did rule 35:54 it undetermined until the investigation was done. 35:57 So anyways, they're coming in and reviewing everything that the investigation found. 36:02 And in the end, they all conclude that Heather Turner died from a self-inflicted gunshot 36:10 wound. 36:10 Still. 36:11 So on February 20th, 2026, the sheriff's office ends up holding a press conference, 36:17 letting the community know that they were officially going to close Heather's 36:22 case. In the 43-minute press conference they admit that investigative mistakes 36:28 were made and they say that they've learned a lot since Heather's case took 36:31 place but they say they can't ignore the evidence and that is what they looked 36:37 at they say just the evidence. They say there was a lot of speculation and 36:42 rumor but they felt like all of these rumors had just been like made up 36:46 online with no one behind the screen standing in front of their claims like anything they said they 36:51 tried to run down kind of just played out like some big game of telephone however i don't know who 36:57 they were talking to or like or what they're talking about because that was not our experience 37:02 during our reporting our reporters are diligent they reached out to so many people 37:08 that stand by the claims that they made in investigative files specifically individuals 37:13 who told detectives what Heather was telling them but I guess they were just dismissed as not credible. 37:21 And again, Sheriff's Office is looking at just the evidence and they made a point to say that 37:26 they weren't going to look at social media posts or even read Andy's book to decide what happened 37:30 here. We're looking at the evidence. Which like I appreciate because sometimes they don't even look 37:36 evidence, but also, I mean, maybe read the book because I think changing or 37:43 differing stories can be evidence. Well, they actually got to talk to Andy as 37:49 part of this reinvestigation, which maybe that's what they're like. They don't 37:53 need to read the book because they spoke to him. Yeah, I don't know. But he 37:56 finally agreed to be interviewed. He even lets his daughter, who is now a 38:00 teenager, talk to investigators too. And the Sheriff's Office says that she 38:04 She recounts that morning just as she did back in 2017. 38:07 She was sleeping, she heard a loud noise, she went to her parents room, and when she 38:11 opened the bedroom door, she saw her dad like, get out of bed and go towards the bathroom. 38:16 Anyways, they say after looking at all of the evidence, which I will walk through piece 38:20 by piece, they conclude that Heather Turner wasn't attacked after showering. 38:26 In fact, they don't think she ever showered at all. 38:29 They say that she went into the bathroom, 38:32 turned on the shower for some reason, 38:34 maybe to muffle the sound, we'll never know. 38:37 And she was in a squatting position, 38:38 holding the gun with both hands to steady herself 38:40 before she took her own life. 38:42 But her hair was wet. 38:44 They actually say it wasn't. 38:45 They say that the coroner may have thought 38:48 it looked wet because of all of the blood, 38:50 but they say it was not wet. 38:53 And they are clear that they do not believe 38:56 Andy ever confessed to doing anything on the 911 call that part that everyone 39:02 points to I mean you heard it it is pretty inaudible they say as much in 39:08 the press conference and they also say that they had the secret service enhance 39:11 and analyze the call and they couldn't find any evidence of him admitting to 39:17 killing his wife also the sheriff's office says that the timeline tracks 39:21 there is no gap of time between when Heather is shot to when Andy 39:26 Called his mom and then called 9-1-1. I mean devil's advocate though. It doesn't mean that she pulled the trigger 39:32 It means that there was no time for staging though or washing the walls, which they say did not happen 39:40 They say that their investigators went back out there after reading the coroner's report 39:46 They tested the wall with luminol, but they didn't find any evidence that the wall had been wiped clean 39:51 the sheriff's office told us that it looked like 39:54 kind of what Andy is saying. I told you Andy is saying that it's from a painting 39:57 project, not like someone's washing away blood. This is another one though, like we 40:02 didn't talk about this earlier when I showed you the picture. I have a picture 40:06 of the wall I showed you, and I have a picture of the painting project that 40:11 they're talking about. And I don't know the wall in the bathroom doesn't look 40:16 like the painting project wall. They reference like a wall by the front 40:19 door, like just... And that's this other one. Yeah, they're saying that 40:23 What what you see by the front door is like how it's like the front by the front door is like almost a textured wall 40:29 Yeah, and it looks like a spongey spongy painting. Everyone loves in the day and painting 40:35 It looks like that, but I can't tell if it's just like the angle. It's darker in that corner 40:40 It doesn't look as textured as by the front door and it's like once not the same thing. I'd not to me 40:46 I don't know but 40:48 You know they keep moving on they're basically giving their list, right? 40:51 So, they say, the gun is near Heather, one registered to her with only one bullet missing. 40:58 One bullet is found still lodged in her skull. 41:02 Her DNA was on the trigger. 41:04 Her hands tested positive for GSR. 41:07 In the same room as her body, they found what they call a note of intent. 41:11 And there were two pens in the bathroom, they say. 41:14 So I think to them, they're taking this as a sign that that note was freshly written. 41:19 They say that all the blood patterns line up with her being in the crouched 41:23 position near the bathroom closet pulling the trigger as she steadied the gun 41:27 with both hands. They even go into detail demonstrating and showing like 41:31 crime scene photos of the blood patterns on her hands to show like how they say 41:34 she would have been gripping the gun. And even though the coroner's report 41:38 noted a wound on the right they say that there wasn't one. And they 41:42 point out that even the deputy who responded to the scene noted in his 41:47 own report that Heather had a gunshot wound on the left side of her head. Nothing mentioned 41:53 about the right side. The official stance is that there was nothing there. And they say, 41:58 listen, the corner was fresh on the job. Their funeral home director is not a trained 42:02 medical expert. And they also addressed the rumors that there was no muzzle burn along 42:08 the wound. The sheriff's office say that in the autopsy report, the medical examiner 42:14 found soot at the wound. 42:16 So they're saying that there was muscle burn? 42:19 No, Britt, like me and the team went round and round and round and round about this. 42:25 I'm pretty sure soot and stippling are not the same thing, 42:28 but maybe that's like too deep into the minutiae for this. 42:32 Either way, the sheriff's office is saying there was soot and so therefore 42:37 she was shot at close range, even if it wasn't direct contact. 42:43 Finally, remember how I told you that Andy's dad may have been the former sheriff's pastor? 42:49 Yeah. 42:49 They specifically addressed this, making it clear that the former sheriff was not on scene, 42:55 and Sheriff Henson told us that their pretty sure Curtis wasn't that sheriff's pastor 43:00 at the time. 43:02 So the sheriff's office ends the press conference saying that these are the facts, 43:07 and all of this is in the evidence. 43:10 so the case is finally officially closed, but there is still one person who 43:18 wasn't fully ready to close the book and that is Paulding County Coroner Lindsey 43:25 Eberhardt Fuller, the same newly elected coroner that was called out for 43:30 Heather's initial death investigation, except now she is in her third term and 43:36 And she spent almost 10 years serving in that position. 43:40 She has seen and experienced and learned so much more in her time as coroner. 43:46 And she still feels like something isn't sitting right with her about this case. 43:51 And there is one Hail Mary play she has to try and do something about it. 43:59 Ever check a bank statement and discover double payments for the same streaming service? 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It was awful 48:06 And there's all these people detectives deputies CSI like all in and around the bathroom 48:12 It was hard for her to get around and investigate and not disturb anything 48:15 But immediately after leaving the scene Lindsay says that she went back and she wrote her coroner's report 48:21 She knew from the moment she walked into that bathroom that this was going to be a big deal 48:26 and she wanted to get everything down on paper while it was still fresh in her mind. 48:30 And she even told her deputy coroner that this case was going to be around for a long time. 48:37 Lindsay made it clear to us that she is not here to buck the system. 48:41 She is just here to do her job. 48:44 So it was her job to call for that autopsy. 48:47 And to be clear, she is still not disputing those findings. 48:50 she told us that if they found the bullet and say that the entrance wound is on the left side, 48:55 not the right, that's what she defers to. But she does want to clear something up. 49:01 In the autopsy report, it says that the coroner is viewing this as a suicide, 49:07 and Lindsay told us that was not her professional opinion. She was just relaying 49:12 what investigators for the sheriff's office were saying at the scene. 49:16 She understood the ruling of undetermined, because like the GBI, she too thought the pending death investigation should be completed, and the results of that taken into consideration when determining how this case would come to a resolution. 49:32 So she sat back and let the sheriff's office do their job for nearly 10 years. 49:39 But she did pour over the case files herself in that time. 49:42 And so when the sheriff's office got up in February and gave their press conference 49:47 She couldn't help but feel like they left a lot of concerning things unaddressed 49:53 What they talked about was the physical evidence. Yes, but what was left out? 49:59 Intentionally right as they pointed out with all of the circumstantial evidence that Lindsay believes is 50:04 relevant, right? It's not like evidence is all of it not just the physical evidence 50:10 And she's not even just talking about all of the relationship context that I told you about, 50:15 the allegations of abuse, Heather's plan to leave Andy right before she died. 50:19 Lindsay said that Andy also demonstrated some strange behavior after Heather's death. 50:24 Like for example, she says that he called her just hours after Heather died asking Lindsay 50:28 about the death certificate saying something about insurance not paying out for suicide. 50:34 The internet search comes back around again. 50:37 Yeah. 50:37 And did he end up getting a life insurance payout? 50:41 He did, eventually. 50:43 So the press conference didn't satisfy all of the questions that Lindsay has, and all 50:48 the questions she knows the community has. 50:50 And she tells us it is her duty as coroner to instill the trust of the community and 50:55 let them know that she's ensuring that the most comprehensive look at the case is 51:01 being done before what she considers real resolution is 51:06 provided. And there is a power she has as the elected 51:10 coroner to give that one more shot. So as we were 51:14 reporting on this case, Lindsey announced that she is 51:17 going to be calling a coroner's inquest, exercising 51:20 her right to lay everything out in the courtroom in 51:24 front of a jury. She says that she's not going against 51:27 the sheriff. She just wants everything, not select details. Everything laid out and on 51:35 the record. This inquest has been set for January 2027. Our team is going to be following 51:43 that inquest closely. Now the only thing that could delay it is if the sheriff's 51:48 office decided to reopen the case. But Sheriff Henson told us there is nothing in the 51:52 case file that provides probable cause for an arrest warrant. He says if there 51:57 was you can best believe that they'd have an arrest warrant already served up, but he says they don't. 52:02 It's going to take some groundbreaking evidence to change their opinion or maybe the right person 52:10 with the right information. Now Andy also weighed in on the inquest with a statement to a TV news 52:16 station 11 alive saying that his family is disappointed in the coroner and calls for quote 52:21 stronger regulations and meaningful qualifications for the elected coroner. 52:27 Lindsay says that she will accept whatever the jury's verdict is after the 52:31 inquest and she'll update the death certificate knowing that she did 52:35 everything in her power to find answers for Heather's loved ones who are 52:38 still questioning her death. Everyone wants resolution and Lindsay says that 52:44 through the law resolution comes through an inquest. Listen I don't know 52:51 what Heather went through on her last night from sundown to sunup 52:55 I don't know what state of mind she was in when she went into that bathroom that morning 53:00 And I don't know what happened before Andy called 9-1-1 53:04 But we talked a lot about the Micah Miller case last episode making comparisons and much like that case 53:11 Even if Heather Turner pulled the trigger, I think we're missing the point if we don't talk about culpability 53:17 What drives a person to feel as though they have no way out, to think that death is better than going on one more day? 53:26 Yeah, in the Michael Miller documentary, they called it Murder by Suicide. 53:30 Yeah, in any scenario of this, I hope her daughter is doing well. 53:36 Some of the allegations of abuse that we heard put her right in the room where it was happening. 53:41 And I don't know what that's like to grow up with that as your example of love. 53:46 I'm sure she misses her mom every single day, and loves her father. Both can be true for her. 53:53 And as a mom, I think Heather would just want her own daughter to have a better ending than she did. 53:59 That's certainly the hope that I have for maybe the person listening to this now who 54:04 finds themselves in a cycle of abuse. I mean, if we talk to them for a second, 54:08 like I know that that can feel so isolating. And so like specific to you and your situation, 54:15 but abusers have the same moves, the same playbook. 54:21 Like I know I gave you guys all this last week, 54:23 but I wanna reiterate it because it is so important. 54:26 You know we've done a lot to support organizations 54:28 working within the domestic violence prevention sector, 54:31 especially here in Indiana, 54:33 where the federal government has reduced funding 54:35 for domestic violence services, 54:37 while at the same time, 54:38 domestic violence deaths, they're skyrocketing, 54:41 they're going up. 54:42 And I know you know this, 54:43 but we have invested here in a 54:46 Director of Philanthropy a single person who all they do all day every day is think about how we can give back and engage with our community 54:52 And there is an entire committee of employees at audio check dedicated to make sure that our giving has the biggest impact 54:59 We gave a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in October to DV nonprofits here in Indiana 55:06 And that's on top of the 1.3 million that we have given to domestic violence organizations over the last seven or eight years 55:13 that work is saving lives. But the thing is I know these episodes are too. Like 55:19 we're getting the messages from people. So I was thinking of how we could reach 55:25 people, maybe in a new way. And I asked Andy's former fiance, Christy Chubb, who 55:31 we talked about in episode one, if she would be open to sharing more of her 55:35 story directly with our listeners about what was going through her mind every 55:40 Every time she went back, the story she had to tell herself, the lies she was made to 55:46 believe, and how she eventually broke the cycle of abuse that she had been trapped in 55:51 since childhood. 55:52 This part of the episode might just reach one person, and that would be worth it. 55:58 But I doubt the numbers are that small because the CDC reports that nationally, nearly 56:03 one in two individuals, have experienced psychological aggression from an intimate partner. 56:09 That statistic is unreal, but I know that means that there are people listening right 56:14 now who are trying to get out. 56:17 And I hope this episode and the conversation I'm about to play can help you. 56:23 I'm going to play you some of the most impactful parts of our conversation now. 56:26 They've been edited for time and clarity, but you can watch the extended version right 56:31 now on our YouTube channel. 56:33 So, Kristi, thank you so much for letting us share your story, for coming on and letting 56:40 so many people hear your story. We've talked about so many cases similar to this one in our 56:47 eight and a half years. And I've talked to experts in domestic violence. We've talked to 56:52 survivors. We've talked to family members of loved ones that they've lost. And I think 56:58 anyone is susceptible. I think this idea that there is a victim and not a victim is wrong. 57:03 And that is true. I remember going to the police. I'd already went back five or six times, 57:12 but I was trying to get away again. And I was just so embarrassed to the, I was telling the 57:16 officer, like, I'm so embarrassed. Like I keep going back to this. I was like, and I told him, 57:20 I was like, I'm so dumb. He said, he said, I know women in the police force. I know 57:26 people that's been lawyers and have seen this happen and still got sucked in to 57:33 that domestic violence cycle. So there is no thing as a painted picture of a 57:39 victim. It could happen to the smartest woman in the world because I mean 57:45 everybody wants to be loved. But what I should have seen as a really big red 57:50 flag in the beginning was that Andy wanted to know everything about me. 57:55 Like, he said it was because I was going to be around his children, he was very protected 58:00 of his children, so he wanted to know like everything. 58:05 And so I spewed my whole life story and that is such a no-no because then he took those 58:12 things and throughout our entire relationship, he used, well, you never had a father growing 58:18 up. 58:18 You never had a dad to show you what love looks like. 58:21 So now I'm trying to teach you what love looks like. 58:25 And he would just use, he wanted all this information 58:30 and throughout our entire relationship, 58:32 all that information ended up being used backfired 58:35 and just used against me. 58:38 Yeah, it was so quick and I fell for it. 58:42 The good, because you're like, 58:43 what keeps you there, what kept you there 58:45 was this balance between, yes, 58:47 this is the things, some things are awful, 58:49 But some things are so good like what is it? What did it look like when it was so good for you guys for me? 58:57 I 58:57 Felt like I had never been in love the way that I loved him 59:01 And it was a point where I felt like I would do anything in the world for him 59:06 Because I think as a child and never having parents and searching not knowing that I was searching 59:14 but for someone to really feel like somebody loved me was a really big thing 59:20 and there was just moments of where like he would lay his head on my chest and 59:26 just tell me how he's never felt anything like that before little things like 59:31 touching his face he's like I've never let anybody touch my face like you're 59:35 the first person I ever let do that would compare me to his deceased wife 59:42 was like, like, I'm scared because I feel like I love you more than I ever loved her and she was 59:49 the love of my life. So those things just filled me up so much that I truly felt like I had never 59:58 found that kind of love before in my life and that was the part that was so hard to let go. 60:03 I knew that I wanted it away from the abuse and I knew that he was hurting me but I couldn't 60:10 let go of the good side because it was just, it was just the most fulfilled I've ever felt in my life. 60:18 So he really did become my identity. So when I left, I was like, who am I? Like I have nothing. 60:25 I mean, I don't know what to do in my life now. Like this was, he was just everything in my life. 60:32 And now that's gone. What am I supposed to do now? And I think it really took years of 60:39 Like, learning who I was, I went to college, graduated college, just self-love, I think 60:47 in that relationship, I depended so much on his validation and him saying, like, I've 60:53 never had somebody like as good as you, like, you're great, you're so beautiful. 60:58 And that's how I was able to love myself by knowing that I was doing something like 61:04 making somebody else feel so great. 61:07 I've always been a people pleaser. 61:10 So just leaving and not having that anymore. 61:15 And it took me years of like, now I love myself, but now I can't tell you how good it feels. 61:21 I don't have to worry about like what's going to happen today or sitting in my bathroom 61:26 floor like asking God to give me a sign like, is he more dangerous than all these really 61:31 bad things, these very abusive moments. 61:33 It's like, can he do something worse to me? 61:36 And I don't think it was me asking. 61:38 Actually, I was asking his deceased wife. 61:40 I wasn't asking God, she was deceased. 61:43 So I was like, can you please give me a sign? 61:45 And I don't think it was necessarily me asking her. 61:48 That was me asking myself 61:49 because I knew that he was abusive. 61:52 So that was my own intuition saying, 61:55 hey, you see how abusive he is. 61:57 Like, how bad do you think that's actually gonna get 62:00 before you actually leave? 62:02 Is there—so I've been the family member, the loved one, the friend on the other side of this who is seeing it, who's hearing it, who's trying to help the person I love. 62:18 If somebody listening right now isn't in the relationship but knows someone who is, is there—what is the best thing from your perspective? 62:26 What could have someone have done for you 62:27 that would have changed your perspective, 62:31 made you feel like you could go back to them 62:33 when you were ready? 62:34 I think with my family, 62:36 it was that they always had something to say, 62:41 and it was judgmental. 62:44 And what they seen, I didn't see. 62:48 Even my very best friend had picked me up one day 62:52 because he had gotten very abusive, 62:54 and it was in the middle of winter there was inches of snow on the ground and I just sat on the curb 62:59 outside waiting for her to compete me up and she was like he's brainwashing you like how do you not 63:06 see this and I was like no it's not as bad and so it was people pointing things out to me that 63:14 I didn't understand that I wasn't seeing and I think that just really put a bigger barrier 63:20 If anything, I feel like they could have been there and just kind of just stayed in the background to 63:28 let me know that they were still there when I was ready instead of trying to force it on me to see 63:36 those things. When was the point where you were like where you finally the veil was lifted and 63:42 you saw what was happening? So I was sexually assaulted by him and it lasts all night and
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