Show full transcript 0:45 and hybrid learning environments. 0:47 Hands-on classes are designed to prepare you 0:49 for skills for industry, 0:50 and online programs have a supportive community 0:53 from all over the country. 0:54 This is purpose-driven education. 0:56 Take action. 0:57 Find your purpose. 0:58 Grand Canyon University. 1:00 Visit gcu.edu. 1:02 Tonight on Dave Live, he loved his athlete. 1:06 I was like, man, he could have been riding and got hit. 1:09 Looking at the body, they were like, there was foul play. 1:12 That's the sad part. 1:14 We knew. 1:15 We were like, Dave, you're in danger. 1:17 Where David's body was found, it was really difficult to know what had happened. 1:22 Any obvious sign of trauma? Gunshots, stabbing, anything like that? 1:26 No. Everything seemed very strange. 1:29 We spoke to his wife, Katrina. 1:31 I don't know what to do. 1:32 She guided us to who could have been suspects. 1:35 He came to my door three times, threatening David. 1:39 David had had some sort of relationship with a woman. 1:42 A possible love triangle out there. 1:45 A theory starts to emerge of a very unusual murder weapon. 1:50 Yes, they toxic mushroom. 1:52 It could be fatal. How stunning is it to see something like this? 1:56 A real life case. It's very rare. 1:59 The mushroom angle just threw this into left field. 2:02 It's like you were watching your friend walk into a trap in slow motion. 2:06 It's a game. One big unfortunate game. 2:09 Just flat out conniving and evil. 2:11 dangerous mushrooms and devious lies did a sickening mix lead to murder. I'm 2:17 Lester Holt and this is Dateline. Here's Blaine Alexander with The Mushroom 2:31 Mystery. This place was her refuge, a respite from a weary world. How often do 2:42 you walk this road? Weather from mid-ean almost daily. This is your normal route? 2:45 Yes it is. It was mid-April 2020, the early days of the COVID pandemic. The 2:51 The world felt chaotic, but this stretch of road 2:54 in Noblesville, Indiana offered peace for Jenny Thomas. 2:58 So typically, what is it like? 2:59 I mean, lots of cars, lots of traffic. 3:01 It's rural, it is a country road. 3:04 Friday, April 24th, a beautiful, picturesque day. 3:08 Jenny was on her usual walk when she happened 3:11 upon something horrific. 3:14 You knew immediately what it was. 3:16 Oh, definitely, definitely did. 3:18 I knew it was obvious. 3:20 It was a man's body on the side of the road. 3:24 Like right in here. 3:26 Yes. 3:27 Was this body buried at all or obscured or just kind of right there out in the open? 3:32 He was just there laying on his side like you would think he was asleep. 3:36 I stood here for a second thinking, can I help this person? 3:39 But it was obvious it was too late for me to help him. 3:41 That's when I knew I needed to go and I ran. 3:44 Jenny took off up the street toward the nearest house. 3:47 She found a neighbor who hopped in his truck to go look for himself. 3:51 He's the one who called 911. 3:53 911, what's the location of your emergency? 3:55 There's a dead body laying in the ditch. 3:57 They're completely black and blue. 4:00 If the guy is a male, I'd say, I don't know, older, 30s, 40s, maybe 50s. 4:05 And it's got a dog call around his neck. 4:08 Okay, we will have an officer dispatch there just as soon as possible. 4:12 Dispatch calls me and says, we've got a dead body. 4:15 And I was like, is this something like real? 4:17 Do we need to come out there? 4:18 And he's like, yeah, get in your car and start this way. 4:21 Greg Lockhart and Chris Yates have worked together 4:23 for more than 20 years at the Hamilton County Sheriff's 4:26 Office. 4:26 But this was Yates' first death scene as a detective. 4:29 So Yates followed Lockhart's lead 4:31 as they looked for clues. 4:33 What condition is the body in? 4:36 He didn't have a shirt on. 4:38 He had a gray sweat pants on. 4:40 Until we moved him, we didn't notice the shirt that he had. 4:43 but he had a shirt look like it was tied around his left wrist. 4:46 But he wasn't wearing a shirt. 4:47 He was not wearing the shirt. 4:49 One theory quickly came to mind. 4:52 Here in Indiana, the spring season 4:53 brings a very specific pastime. 4:56 My mind immediately went to, since it was April in Indiana, 5:00 mushrooms are a big thing that people go out and hunt for. 5:03 So my assumption was maybe it's a mushroom hunter 5:05 that's collapsed while out hunting. 5:07 I have to stop you. 5:08 Mushroom hunting? 5:09 Mushroom hunting. 5:10 So more of the mushrooms are edible. 5:12 and people fry them. 5:14 I don't know how many other different ways 5:16 you can eat them, but they're very good. 5:19 It's not mushroom picking, right? 5:20 Why is it called mushroom hunting? 5:22 Cause they're very hard to find. 5:23 So you have to know like a specific area. 5:26 Detectives wondered if the victim 5:27 could have been one of those mushroom hunters. 5:29 But a quick look at the body revealed 5:31 that was probably not the case. 5:33 For starters, he wasn't wearing any shoes. 5:36 You notice something else 5:37 has draped across his body. 5:38 What was that? 5:39 So it was a rifle sling. 5:40 That's what the 911 caller had noticed around the man's neck. 5:44 For those who may not be as familiar with guns, as you are, describe a rifle sling. 5:50 So imagine a big backpack strap, three or four foot long, adjustable, just would fit 5:56 on the top of the rifle, on the bottom of the rifle, you can throw it over your shoulder 5:59 or carry it in the woods. 6:00 We determined it's an Uncle Mike's brand. 6:02 No shirt, no shoes, and a rifle sling? 6:06 None of it made sense. 6:07 But one thing was clear. 6:09 officers could tell from the condition that whoever this was had been dead for 6:14 a few days. As you look at him, is there any obvious sign of trauma? Like, can you 6:18 look at him and immediately tell what happened? Gunshot, stabbing, anything like 6:23 that? No. It was so strange to me. As we started when the corners got there and 6:27 we started to move the body together, there was no apparent trauma. At any 6:30 point did you think maybe this was a hit-and-run? No, because you would 6:34 generally have signs of trauma with that. Another theory popped up. We 6:38 We start thinking, man, was it an overdose death? 6:41 And then somebody didn't know what to do, 6:42 and so they just dumped this body here. 6:45 Ginny had walked the same route the previous day 6:47 and didn't notice anything. 6:49 So investigators thought if the body had been dumped there, 6:52 it happened the night before. 6:54 They hoped an autopsy would tell police 6:56 if they were on the right track, 6:58 but the results were inconclusive. 7:00 We didn't have a cause of death 7:02 and everything seemed very strange. 7:05 And about to get even stranger. 7:07 But if somebody eats enough of it and doesn't get any sort of medical help, 7:11 then it could be fatal. Yes. 7:13 She kind of clutched her chest and then fell back against the wall. 7:16 You could feel the anger radiating off of him. 7:18 Yeah, toward David. 7:18 You could almost feel the heat. 7:20 Just looking at her, thinking what? 7:22 These are the craziest stories I've ever heard. 7:24 And they find that none of it's true. 7:25 Nothing's adding up. 7:39 Indiana detectives were trying to identify a man found dead on the side of the road. 7:44 A victim without a name. Until... 7:46 Once we got him to the morgue, we fingerprinted him, 7:49 came back David Michael Fouts. 7:50 David Michael Fouts, so you got a name? 7:52 Got a name. 7:53 We found out he lived in Pendleton, Indiana. 7:55 About how far away is that from where he was found? 7:58 I think it's 9.5 miles. 8:01 Detective learned David Fouts was 50 years old. 8:04 He worked as a senior consultant 8:05 at the massive technology company Salesforce. 8:08 He was always trying to help other people in the sport. 8:12 Matt Tanner met David Fouts years earlier 8:14 at a cycling event. 8:15 It was always exciting going to the finish with Dave 8:18 because he was all grinning ear to ear because we were the fastest guys and he loved it. 8:22 So initially it was literally your shared speed that brought you two together. 8:26 Yeah for sure. 8:28 When Matt started his own cycling group Dave was one of the first to join. 8:32 What kind of community, what kind of feel were you trying to build here? 8:36 So honestly like initially we were very race focused it was called Roll Fast and we wanted 8:41 we wanted fast cyclists. 8:43 You wanted to win? 8:43 Yeah and then we felt like there was more we could do with the club. 8:46 We kind of decided let's let's focus on what we call mental fitness. Did Dave fit into that? Yeah, very much 8:53 Matt's wife Chris was the group's driver and cook 8:56 That's really how I got to know Dave is because Dave was always like behind the scenes helping and working like he'd come in 9:03 The kitchen with me while I'm cooking for the team and he'd be like can I help and he sure I'd put him to work 9:09 and so he was the mechanic for when they would go on their camps and so 9:15 So sometimes Dave would stay behind and not even ride. 9:18 While I'm cooking and preparing lunch or dinner, you know, he's in there repairing a bike that 9:23 fell apart the day before. 9:24 So he was always in the position of helping people. 9:27 In fact, his friends say, Dave was truly a renaissance man. 9:32 He had so many other just interests and, you know, he would bring us eggs from his 9:36 farm because, you know, he's like, oh, my chickens are laying crazy eggs. 9:39 You want some of them. 9:40 And we're like, yeah, we love that. 9:42 and he never had children of his own and so he created a life that was very 9:48 fulfilling and I thought that was super cool. That's notable. Yeah. In the blur of 9:52 all that activity and movement, the friend say David often kept his personal 9:56 life personal. He divorced his college sweetheart in 2018. Did you know much 10:02 about their divorce? About their split? It happened quickly and I would say 10:06 quietly. By 2019 he was married again to a woman named Katrina. She'd grown up in 10:13 a town about an hour away where her father owned a roofing business. She'd 10:18 been married once before and had several grown children. Katrina and David first 10:22 met through cycling. He was so passionate with her and we had never seen that 10:28 side of him before. And he wanted to be a provider for grandkids and kids 10:33 he didn't have, and um... 10:35 He loved her kids. He loved her kids. 10:41 When did you first find out that something had happened to Dave? 10:44 I believe we saw it on the news. 10:46 I also thought where they found him was like a road that was plausible 10:50 you could be riding on and get hit. 10:52 It was a road that I've ridden on a lot. 10:55 Wasn't that far from his house that I was like, 10:58 man, he could have been riding and got hit. 11:00 But police already knew this was no biking accident. 11:03 Sheriff's office. 11:04 It was late that night when they left the scene to break the news to David's wife 11:12 They first needed to make sure they have the right house 11:20 Katrina went inside to retrieve her phone when she returned detectives looked at the photo and gave her the news 11:26 We have reason to believe this point that he is dead. 11:33 We found him today. 11:35 How did she respond? 11:36 She kind of clutched her chest and then fell back against the wall. 11:40 Stay up here with me for a second and we need to talk about everything 11:50 and try to figure out what's happened in the last couple of days. 11:54 Katrina thought she knew. 11:56 He's threatened suicide multiple times. 11:58 I've called the police a few times, there was nothing they could do unless they said he 12:07 admitted it. 12:08 You just need to figure out what you're going to be able to figure out the story. 12:19 I don't know what to think, I don't know what to feel right now because this situation 12:23 is... 12:24 I love my husband no matter what he's done. 12:27 She invited them inside. 12:29 I don't know what to do. 12:51 She explained that she and David had been going through a rough patch. 12:54 He was staying at another apartment and she hadn't spoken to him for days. 13:03 She said she'd worried about his mental state that last time she saw him and that he'd been 13:08 talking about suicide. 13:21 The detectives knew her theory couldn't be right. 13:24 David wasn't wearing any shoes. 13:27 And yet? 13:27 Bottom is feet are clean, so he didn't walk there and collapse, anything like that. 13:33 So that means that he didn't die in that location. 13:36 Whatever happened, didn't happen here. 13:39 Correct. 13:39 He did not miracle himself into that ditch, so there's no way. 13:43 Detectives needed to know, did David have any enemies? 13:47 His wife certainly thought so. 13:50 He came to my door three times, threatening David. 13:57 Having lots of choices sounds like it would be great. 13:59 Who doesn't want more flavors of ice cream? 14:02 It turns out the answer is us. 14:05 Too many choices can make us anxious, overwhelmed. 14:09 I'm Shankar Vedantam, host of the Hidden Brain Podcast and YouTube channel. 14:14 Each week, Hidden Brain brings you fascinating, science-backed insights about human behavior. 14:19 So the next time you have to choose, choose Hidden Brain on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 14:24 YouTube, or HiddenBrain.org. 14:27 this is the story of the one as a shipping manager he's running the dock 14:31 stocking supplies and making sure every order goes out on time and Granger 14:36 helps him stay prepared from shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools he counts 14:42 on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling so his operation runs 14:46 smoothly no matter the shift call 1-800-GRANGER click Granger.com or just 14:52 Stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. 14:57 Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. 14:59 The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. 15:02 Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. 15:06 With Mint, you can get premium wireless 15:07 for just $15 a month. 15:09 Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, 15:11 but that's weird. 15:12 Okay, one judgment. 15:15 Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. 15:19 Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan 15:21 equivalent to $15 per month required. 15:22 intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, 15:25 taxes and fees extra, see full terms at MintMobile.com." 15:37 24 hours into their investigation, all Hamilton County Sheriff's detectives had was 15:41 a growing list of what didn't happen to David Fouts. 15:46 They knew it wasn't a biking accident, didn't look like suicide, either. 15:50 So they took a closer look at David's personal life, and, sure enough, Katrina told detectives 15:56 her husband had been having an affair. 15:58 He wasn't the type of person I would expect to be involved with a woman like 16:07 this. David had had an affair with their housekeeper and David had bought her a 16:13 new car. David had allowed her to use his address in Pendleton so her kids could 16:19 go to Pendleton schools. Oh wow. And that David was sending all this money to 16:24 this girl. He owned up to everything. I wasn't mad, but I did a forensic accounting, you know, 16:30 and I'm like, and you spent eight grand on a car and spent over $30,000. I'm sorry. I know I'm 16:38 sorry. I'll stop. I'll stop. I'll stop. But Katrina said he didn't. The infidelity continued, 16:45 and then a man showed up at their doorstep with a threat. Do you know who this guy was? 16:51 I've never seen him in my life. 16:54 Okay. 16:55 Did he say who he was? 16:57 No, and I didn't ask. 16:59 Was this one of the woman's partner, a spouse, a husband? 17:02 Katrina alluded that it was a father of one of her children. 17:07 Who was she saying upset with David? 17:09 Yes. 17:10 Because of this affair? 17:11 Yes. 17:11 She described him very well dressed, wanted to speak to David. 17:15 David was never there, but this unknown gentleman went out of his way to tell Katrina 17:20 Katrina, you're in no danger. 17:22 I'm not gonna harm you. 17:23 My issue is with David." 17:25 Katrina said she wanted to call the police 17:27 to report the man, but David stopped her. 17:29 He wouldn't let me call the police about the man 17:32 that came to door to threaten to kill him three or four times. 17:35 The housekeeper told Dateline she and David 17:38 were not having an affair, 17:39 and when police interviewed her, 17:41 she said he was just helping her out. 17:43 He did not buy her a car, according to her, 17:46 and he really hadn't given her that much money. 17:48 Okay. 17:49 but he had allowed her to use his address for her kids. 17:53 Does she give you names of her children's fathers? 17:56 The housekeeper didn't think anyone she knew 17:58 had threatened David, but she gave them three names. 18:02 Detectives tracked them down. 18:04 All three males were accounted for. 18:06 Two of them were in prison and one lived in Florida. 18:08 Okay. 18:08 So, and the one in Florida had an alibi. 18:11 So that road turned out to be a dead end 18:14 and detectives were back at square one 18:16 on finding David's killer and finding out what killed him. 18:20 The forensic pathologist said, 18:22 look, I know there's not a glaring cause of death, 18:26 but it is not natural. 18:28 He did not have a heart attack. 18:29 He did not have a stroke. 18:31 This is some kind of other death. 18:35 However, detectives did have, well, 18:37 maybe not quite a lead, but during the autopsy, 18:40 the pathologist discovered something in David's stomach. 18:44 What do you guys find? 18:45 The only thing that was really there, it looked like little chunks of mushroom. 18:49 Mushroom? 18:50 Mushrooms. 18:51 Those mushrooms led them to Purdue University and the lab of Dr. Catherine Aime, a professor of mycology. 18:59 Help me understand what a professor of mycology is. What do you study? 19:02 We study fungi. All aspects of fungi actually in my lab. 19:06 You get a phone call essentially asking to help police solve a murder. 19:10 Yes. Yes, I was happy to see if I could help identify the mushrooms. 19:15 That had to have been a surprising phone call, to say the least. 19:18 It's a little outside of my normal realm of day-to-day activity, yeah. 19:23 So Dr. Reim got to work using DNA sequencing to identify the mystery mushrooms. 19:30 What kind of mushroom was this? 19:31 It was something called leukocybe canadum. 19:35 And what happens if you eat that kind of mushroom? 19:37 Well, this is where science is a little uncertain. 19:42 There are reports of people eating this mushroom without problem. 19:45 There are other reports of people having toxicity from eating this mushroom that it has a toxin 19:52 called muscarin in it. 19:53 It makes people sweat and salivate and cry and basically excrete most of their liquid 20:01 very, very quickly. 20:03 Leaving someone dehydrated and weak. 20:05 Do we typically see cases of people dying 20:08 from muscarine poisoning? 20:09 No, we do not. 20:11 So toxic, but not necessarily deadly? 20:14 No real answers there. 20:16 Maybe another conversation with David's wife 20:19 could shed light on what happened? 20:21 Or maybe not. 20:23 She said that she surfed with her husband 20:25 and her husband died in her arms 20:27 and while she was surfing, 20:29 she had her arm was bitten off by a shark. 20:32 It's fanciful, just weird stories. 20:47 When police first spoke with David's wife Katrina, she was overwhelmed with emotion. 20:52 I don't know what to think, I don't know what to feel right now. 20:56 A few days later, they wanted to talk to her again, so she came down to the station. 21:01 Would I have a glass of water or some coffee or anything? 21:04 Black coffee would be great. 21:06 Detectives noticed a few things right off the bat. 21:09 Katrina liked to talk. 21:11 A lot. 21:12 Then it tells you how much you got left. 21:14 Often adding details they didn't ask about. 21:17 And then we were located to La Mura, Brazil, 21:20 State of São Paulo. 21:21 I had uterus cancer, greyhounds. 21:24 They have their own way of doing things. 21:26 It was hard to get her to answer direct questions. 21:29 She would break off into a tangent 21:31 and still never really answer your question. 21:34 Katrina told them stories of a rather 21:36 high-profile profession as a fashion designer 21:39 with big ticket clients. 21:41 We made all the little noses tour in clothes last year. 21:44 We got Kardashians wearing our freaking clothes right now. 21:47 Did you watch this before? 21:48 I think they were a pretty big deal, aren't they? 21:50 To the detective's ears, the stories sounded far-fetched. 21:53 It's a pattern David's friends had noticed from the jump. 21:57 Not long after they met, Chris and another 21:59 roll-fast wife took Katrina to lunch. 22:02 David had introduced her by a nickname, Edie. 22:05 In that lunch, Edie explained and talked about her life 22:09 and had the craziest stories I've ever heard. 22:11 Like in my 57 years, I've never had a luncheon like that. 22:15 She knew about me and my first husband who had passed away. 22:18 And I don't know if that was a catalyst for her 22:20 to say crazy things, 22:22 but she said that her first husband died in her arms 22:26 and that she was from Brazil. 22:29 That's where she lived and she surfed with her husband 22:31 and her husband died in her arms. 22:33 And while she was surfing, 22:35 she had her arm was bitten off by a shark. 22:38 Now we're both looking at her. 22:40 She has two arms. 22:42 So I don't know what the follow-up question for that is. 22:46 So these are the craziest stories we've ever heard. 22:49 So did Katrina just like to spin tall tales for fun 22:52 or were her lies dangerous? 22:55 Detectives started digging into her past 22:57 and were shocked by what they found. 23:00 I was assigned to Superior Court one at that time. 23:04 Adrienne Champine was a deputy prosecutor 23:06 with Hendrix County, Indiana. 23:08 She first crossed paths with Katrina in 2011 23:11 after Katrina reported to police that she'd been raped 23:14 by a friend of her, then-boyfriends. 23:17 She gave him a ride back to his house. 23:21 She went inside with him. 23:23 She was going to use the bathroom, 23:24 and at that time, he grabbed her and assaulted her. 23:31 She said that the attack was so brutal, 23:33 it hurt to sit for too long. 23:35 Because of these traumatic injuries that she had sustained from the attack. 23:40 Did she go to the hospital or the ER? 23:42 She did go to the hospital. 23:43 She was checked out? 23:44 She was. 23:45 The police followed up, of course, with the medical providers. 23:48 They told the police, no, she did not have traumatic injuries. 23:54 She said she almost didn't report the assault because of what she did for a living. 23:58 She told them that she was a photographer for celebrities and famous magazines and that 24:06 it would damage her reputation to be in this situation. 24:12 And she told more stories about herself that two investigators just seemed off. 24:18 She said that she owned houses. 24:21 I believe she said several houses in Indiana that she also had a property or house 24:25 in Florida. 24:26 they could not find any evidence that she owned, 24:30 any of these properties. 24:31 They also did not find any evidence 24:34 that she had any source of income 24:36 for the previous three years, so. 24:39 So police look into all of this. 24:41 Right. 24:41 And they find that none of it's true. 24:43 Nothing's adding up. 24:44 Most crucially, the details of the assault weren't adding up. 24:48 The accused man denied rape in Katrina 24:50 and told police he had a witness, 24:52 another woman who was part of the entire encounter. 24:56 So they talk to her? 24:57 Yes. 24:58 What does she say? 24:59 They bring her in and she corroborates everything 25:02 that the male said. 25:03 It was consensual the entire time. 25:05 So when police go back to Katrina, what does she say? 25:09 What's her explanation? 25:11 Her response was, I think I need an attorney. 25:15 Police charged Katrina with false informing 25:17 and dropped the investigation into the man. 25:20 The level of crime he was looking at 25:22 At that time, it would have been a B felony rape, 25:25 which would have carried 20 years in prison. 25:28 This is a very serious allegation. 25:30 This is more than just a little white lie. 25:33 Correct. 25:34 As a prosecutor, you know that women coming forward 25:38 in sexual assault cases can be extremely difficult anyway. 25:42 There's the question of believability. 25:44 How upsetting is it to see something like that? 25:48 It is upsetting and I think what's very upsetting 25:50 about it is that you want to believe the victim when they come forward and I think she 25:58 was was banking on that when she came forward with this lie. 26:04 Katrina was sentenced to almost a year of probation in order to pay about $6,000 in 26:10 restitution. As they dug further into her background, detectives investigating David's 26:15 the murder tracked down Katrina's family, 26:17 an ex-boyfriend, and even her ex-husband. 26:20 They admitted she could be charming 26:22 and was always down for a good time. 26:25 Anything you wanna say? 26:26 I'm really excited, and all I can say people 26:30 is you have to be there. 26:32 The investigators learned that, 26:34 aside from sometimes helping 26:35 at her father's roofing company, 26:37 there was no evidence that Katrina 26:39 had worked a day in her life. 26:41 In fact, she seemed to lily pad from one relationship to the next. 26:46 How was she getting by? 26:47 Wherever the money was is where she stayed. 26:49 She was all about money. 26:50 As you're talking to more and more people, this pattern is starting to develop about Katrina. 26:55 One financially, but two, making allegations against her romantic partners. 27:00 Correct. 27:01 She reported her first husband to police saying he hit her. 27:05 She pressed charges. 27:06 He denied hitting her but pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct. 27:09 Once married to David, Katrina accused him of shoving her. 27:13 David pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor domestic battery charge. 27:18 Detective Lockhart looked at all of this. 27:20 He dug into David's past and couldn't find any history of David being physically abusive. 27:26 As you're looking at this, did you believe that he pled guilty because he in fact was guilty of this 27:31 or because it was the path of least resistance? 27:34 I think it was the path of least resistance. 27:36 And sometimes in the legal system, it's easier just to bite the bullet and move on past it, 27:42 so to speak. 27:43 Months later, Katrina told police he pushed her again, but this time, David said Katrina 27:48 was lying. 27:49 David's attorney told Detective Lockhart phone records show David was nowhere near 27:54 Katrina when the alleged assault took place. 27:57 According to his attorney, he was going to fight that case, but he passed before 28:00 the case came up. 28:02 To hear, abusive. 28:04 No. 28:04 Does that sound... 28:06 I've never seen Dave violent with anybody. 28:10 David's friends, the Tanners, believe Katrina was lying when she told police he was suicidal. 28:16 They never saw that, but they did see a dark side to the marriage. 28:21 They remember talking to David for hours one night about his relationship. 28:25 It was kind of the same thing over and over, but at some point he said, 28:30 if I end up dead, she killed me. 28:33 He said those words, right? 28:36 And we looked at each other and we were like, 28:37 Dave, you have to leave. 28:39 Get rid of her. 28:40 And yet at the same breath, 28:41 he's saying he wants to go back to her. 28:42 And he said, I can't. 28:43 He said, I can't leave her. 28:44 Can't leave her. 28:45 He loves her. 28:46 Matt and Chris looked back on that conversation 28:47 and became convinced Katrina killed their friend. 28:51 And they shared that with detectives. 28:54 Detective Lockhart would now put Katrina's words 28:56 under a microscope, 28:58 starting with where she was when David went missing. 29:00 I don't know, I meet Terry over at the country house. 29:04 Terry? 29:04 Who was that? 29:11 Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. 29:13 That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists 29:17 and genres you'll love. 29:19 Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album and 29:23 we'll make a station crafted just for you. 29:25 Best of all, you can listen for free. 29:28 Download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack 29:31 to your life. 29:32 With the Vivgar-Titrulo, F-Gar-Tigamot-Alpha, and Hyaluronidase-QVFC pre-filled syringe, 29:39 self-injection is in your hands. 29:41 It's your treatment routine. 29:43 Use at the time and same day each week. 29:46 Take the pre-filled syringe with you on vacation. 29:49 Or have it handy for cozy staycations. 29:52 For more information, visit LiveVividly.com, that's L-I-V-E-V-Y-V-I-D-L-Y.com. 30:01 brought to you by our GenX. 30:03 I'm Serena Williams and I'm healthier on Ro. 30:06 I've lost 34 pounds in a year 30:08 with GLP-1's diet and exercise. 30:10 On Ro, you can access GLP-1 options, 30:13 including the first FDA-approved GLP-1 pill for weight loss. 30:17 Go to ro.co.com slash journey to see if you qualify. 30:20 14 to 20% average weight loss in one year 30:22 in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight 30:24 with a weight-related medical condition 30:26 versus 2.2% to 3.1% in placebo arm. 30:29 Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to roe.co. 30:41 Detectives had more questions for David Fountz's wife, Katrina. 30:45 Starting with a key one. Where was she the night David was murdered? 30:49 She told detectives she'd been with a man named Terry Hopkins, 30:53 a longtime family friend. 30:55 Pops or Hoppy, father from another mother. 30:58 These are all things that she told me about Terry. 31:00 Nicknames. 31:01 Nicknames. Between the two. 31:02 Clearly the two of them are close. 31:04 Very close. 31:09 Katrina said she'd met up with Terry at a house she rented in the country. 31:13 I meet Terry over at the country house because we were going to grab some food because he 31:18 said he was in the mood for Chinese. 31:20 We were going to spend some time together, watch a movie. 31:22 And you said this was six to seven at night somewhere in there? 31:25 Yeah, it wasn't even dark yet. 31:27 Katrina said she stayed there through the night. 31:30 The next day she went back to the home in Pendleton she shared with David. 31:34 Police needed to speak with Terry, but he refused, so they detained him and tried to get him to answer some questions. 31:40 Are you willing to give us a statement and talk to us about this? 31:45 My good sense tells me that I need to wait and request for a returning. 31:50 If you change your mind, do you want to talk to us? 31:52 I have her number, okay? 31:54 Police had to let Terry go, but they kept digging. 31:57 So he doesn't talk to you, he doesn't answer any questions. 31:59 Other than to tell me, he called me one time and told me what a pathetic job I was doing 32:03 with my investigation, and that he was going to sue me." 32:07 Terry wasn't spooked by law enforcement. 32:10 He'd spent 33 years with the police department in a nearby county where he'd worked his 32:15 way up to captain. 32:16 How was he as an officer? 32:18 Oh, he was good. 32:19 He had a good sense of humor, but also a passion for people, especially the underdogs. 32:24 This is Deb Hopkins, Terry's ex-wife. 32:27 Terry wasn't talking to police, but Deb certainly was. 32:31 He asked me numerous questions about Terry and Katrina. 32:35 Deb told investigators she'd been Terry's wife for 45 years, 32:38 and their life together was mostly good. 32:41 I could start a sentence, he could finish it, 32:43 and it was just so easy, so relaxed, so comfortable. 32:48 But Deb says their happy marriage unraveled after Terry retired. 32:52 He would get very upset very quickly, and he would cry, 32:56 way, and he never cried. Over the slightest thing, we had a neighborhood cat that died 33:02 and he just bawled. 33:04 It was a sudden change, so concerning, they went to see a neurologist. 33:08 And that's when we found out that he had had a frontal lobe stroke. 33:12 A stroke? 33:13 Yeah, he didn't even know it. 33:14 I thought strokes made your face sag or your arm loose. A frontal lobe stroke does 33:20 is none of that. 33:20 It affects your mind, it affects your judgment, 33:23 it affects your ethics, it affects your reasoning, 33:26 your empathy. 33:28 Deb says Terry was never the same after his diagnosis. 33:32 He became verbally abusive and started having an affair. 33:35 I said, I'm leaving. 33:38 Hardest thing I ever did, up to that point. 33:40 After the divorce, Terry moved in 33:42 with his friend, Katrina's father. 33:44 And he started spending a lot of time around Katrina. 33:47 Katrina. He was still in touch with Deb too. She noticed that whenever Katrina's husband 33:52 David came up in conversation, Terry would fly into a frenzy. 34:04 So Katrina's alibi for the night her husband was killed was a man who openly hated David? 34:10 That was suspicious and so was this. On the night police tried to question Terry four 34:16 Four days after the body was found, he had a band-aid on each hand and one big one on 34:21 his forearm. 34:22 And the initial thing that drew my attention is where his glasses set. 34:25 There was some blood. 34:27 That was a wound. 34:28 And I thought, you know, these look like he could have been in a fight. 34:32 Detective Lockhart requested a search warrant to collect Terry's DNA and take pictures 34:36 of his body. 34:37 So he had a cross up here and it looked like a tattoo or a necklace necklace necklace. 34:42 There was a bruise that looked just like that cross. 34:44 Like he had held something against his chest really tightly, but his whole chest was bruised 34:51 Katrina told police she was not only with Terry the night David likely died 34:55 But she also admitted to being with Terry two nights later on a Thursday, which is also the night 35:01 We believe that the body was dumped when police dug through Terry and Katrina's phone records 35:05 They learned the two were in constant contact 35:08 Except for that night their cell phones got shut off on the night that the but we believe the body was dumped 35:14 for a period of like four hours. 35:16 When they had this long communication string 35:18 talking all the time 35:19 and all of a sudden both phones shut off. 35:21 But Detective Yates discovered 35:22 that didn't necessarily mean 35:24 the two weren't in communication. 35:26 When he searched their cars, 35:28 he found a walkie-talkie in each. 35:31 Like a small walkie-talkie 35:32 that you could use as a kid 35:34 or you might see some big box store that they talk on. 35:38 And Detective Yates noticed other things in Terry's car. 35:41 A lot of different types of knives, 35:43 tools, zip ties, tarps. 35:46 It's like a perfect murder cover-up kit. 35:48 Yes. 35:50 Investigators now believed Katrina and Terry 35:52 worked together to kill David. 35:55 But why? 35:56 What did Katrina stand to gain from David's death? 35:59 Everything. 36:00 A half million dollar life insurance policy, 36:02 the $40,000 from Salesforce as like a severance pay. 36:06 The house, the two motorcycles, 36:10 the three cars, well, more cars than that. 36:12 But his specialized bicycles that were tens of thousands of dollars expensive, literally 36:19 everything. 36:20 She would have had a very lucrative payday from David's death. 36:23 Yes. 36:24 But Detective Lockhart knew, means and motive were not enough to make an arrest. 36:29 To make a murder case, they needed to nail down a cause of death. 36:33 Maybe the clue they needed was this. 36:37 There was a screenshot of a death cap mushroom. 36:40 You can learn a lot about a person by looking through their phone, and when 36:56 detectives reviewed the contents of Katrina's photo roll, they stumbled upon 37:00 one very telling picture. There was a screenshot of a deathcap mushroom. After 37:07 speaking with mushroom expert Dr. Aime, they learned the deathcap mushroom is, 37:12 as its name implies, deadly. The alcanada mushrooms found in David's 37:16 stomach are considered a less toxic variety, but it turns out the two 37:21 to look a lot alike. 37:23 They're both tall, stately, pure white mushrooms, 37:27 big white cap, white gills, so very, very similar. 37:30 Is it possible that if somewhere we're going out 37:32 trying to gather mushrooms that they made a mistake, 37:35 one mushroom for the other, 37:36 try and grab the deadly one, but get the other instead? 37:39 Yeah, I think that's very reasonable hypothesis. 37:42 So maybe the detective's first inclination 37:45 was at least partially correct. 37:47 Maybe the crime did involve mushroom hunting after all. 37:51 But it was Katrina and Terry who'd been on the prowl, planning to kill David with the 37:56 lethal death-cap mushroom, but accidentally grabbing the less toxic one instead. 38:01 Detective Lockhart explored this theory, while Katrina seemed to explore a friendship with 38:06 him. 38:07 Hey there, good afternoon. 38:10 A ball of stress, Katrina. 38:12 How often is she reaching out to you guys? 38:17 Oh my goodness. 38:17 Daily, hourly. 38:22 To say what? 38:23 Talk about life living, pursuit of happiness. 38:26 I just want you to know, Greg. 38:29 But at the same time, you are getting, I mean, 38:33 growing mountains of evidence that make you fairly certain 38:36 that she's the person who killed her husband. 38:38 Yes. 38:39 How do you square those two? 38:40 Well, it's a game. 38:41 This is one big unfortunate game that we have to play. 38:44 I have to be nice to her and not let her know what I know 38:47 and keep her talking to me. 38:48 Detective Lockhart wasn't sharing with Katrina that mountain of evidence he'd been collecting 38:54 against her and Terry. 38:56 The DNA results came back five months after the murder, and… 39:00 Terry's DNA was on the shirt that was still on the body of David. 39:05 This is a horrible piece of evidence for Terry. 39:07 Very damning. 39:08 The report also showed David's DNA was found in the back of Terry's car. 39:12 After reviewing the evidence, Hamilton County prosecutor Andre Mishka developed a theory. 39:17 So, in our theory, the mushrooms were an attempt to kill him, but because they were 39:24 an elkinatum and not amenidivrosa, they did not. 39:28 Weakened him in some form. 39:29 Right. 39:29 Weakened him in some form. 39:31 Now, he was dehydrated. 39:32 But then they had to pivot and go a different tact. 39:36 And so we believe that in the early morning hours, that that's when this fixation occurs. 39:42 Part of that theory, that David likely died by strangulation. 39:46 That would also explain those injuries Detective Saw on Terry's hands and chest. 39:52 Prosecutor Mishka thought that after strangling David, Katrina and Terry drove out to the 39:57 country to dump his body. 39:59 And as for that rifle sling found around David's neck, they thought that was to help 40:03 roll him into the ditch. 40:05 We believe it's a means of helping to give something to grab onto in that part 40:10 of his body. 40:11 The prosecutor thought this would be the best the case was going to get. 40:15 It was now or never. 40:17 You're arrest, Terry. Tell me how that happens. 40:19 So we had the Indian State Police SWAT team descend upon him. 40:23 They were trying to call him out, and it took 10 to 15 minutes. 40:27 Police found Katrina driving her car. 40:29 And then our SWAT team took her down. 40:32 When they searched her car, they found $40,000 in cash and a burner phone. 40:37 On her cell phone, she had searched how to disappear and never be found, how to get fake IDs. 40:42 She searched that specifically? 40:43 quickly? Yes. In September of 2020, Katrina and Terry were charged with murder and conspiracy 40:50 to commit murder. With two defendants awaiting trial in jail, investigators couldn't help 40:56 but wonder if one of them might flip. Terry was interviewed in an attempt to do a plea
Community discussion